Financial Consulting Firms Uk


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symphony financial partners was set up by david baran and kazuhiko shibata. david has been living in japan for over 20 years and is fluent in japanesefounders' expertise included equity trading, arbitrage, corporate advisory and m&a.unique strategy: unlocking value through catalysts. why japan isn't an asset class.hedge funds reap profits as many global investors have left.best opportunity: listed company with high probability for m&a activity.avoiding value trap by creating catalysts to unlock value. improved legal framework led to steady increase in m&a activity in japan over last 10 years.cheap financing available as japanese banks discovered m&a as profit center.japanese firms are so cash rich that often banks lend against cash.more mbos, average premium is 50% (!) and sometimes triple digit. sinfonietta: achieving substantial returns in low risk asian macro portfolio.having traded japan through bubbles, bust and deflation gives managers unique edge what to do when "all assets go bad" and correlate. bright outlook for sfp value realization fund as japanese management cooperates to unlock shareholder value.sinfonietta: "geared towards a disorderly market", set up to always consider tail risk and at least be neutral in falling markets.bearish view on asia - "white swans are everywhere:- small reduction in risk assets (withdrawals) can lead to large price changes- historical volatility and volumes includes now gone prop desks - a risk not priced in.


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all experience has shown that mankind ismore disposed to suffer - while evils are sufferable - than to right themselves by abolishing the formsto which they are accustomed. american declarationof independence. a renegade economist film people are awfully forgiving. they just don't understand

what has been done to them. we are at an epochal shift. we're at a point where the west could tip into a complacentand quite well off redundancy or we could play a decisive rolein the future. what the banks didwas reprehensible. that was why there was the outrageat the greed of the bankers when we gave them moneythat was supposed to help them lend to others

but they decided to use that moneyto pay themselves bonuses - for what, for record losses? we are governedby corporations today. often by corporations thatdon't have very much interest in the united states of america. i don't know what happened man,what happened to the u.s., it went so far in the ditch. you know, what...at what moment did it all go bad? was it disco?was it donna summer?

is that what killed america? we are enteringthe age of consequence. a rapacious financial system, escalating organised violence, abject poverty for billions and the loomingenvironmental fall-out are all converging at a timewhen governments, religion, and mainstream economistshave stalled.

war, conquest, famine and death - the four horsemen are coming. four horsemen this is not a filmthat sees conspiracies. it is not a filmthat mongers fear. it is not a filmthat blames bankers or politicians.

it's a film that questionsthe systems we've created - and suggests waysto reform them. over centuries, systems have beensubtly modified, manipulated and even corrupted often to servethe interests of the few. we have continuallyaccepted these changes and, because man can adjust to livingunder virtually any conditions, the trait thathas enabled us to survive is the very traitthat has suppressed us.

most societies have an elite and the elites tryto stay in power. and the way they stay in power is not merely by controlling themeans of production, to be marxist, i.e. controlling the money, but by controlling the cognitive map,the way we think. and what really mattersin that respect, is not so muchwhat is actually said in public but is what is left un-debated,unsaid.

for centuries gatekeepershave manipulated our cognitive map. but in 1989 a computer scientistby the name of tim berners-lee implemented the firstsuccessful communication between an http clientand server. the world wide web was born. it has sinceunleashed a tsunami of instantly accessible,freely available information. just as gutenberg's printing presswrestled control of the cognitive map away from an ecclesiasticaland royal elite,

today the internetis beginning to change governments, financeand the media. we areat the cusp of change. but to enact itwe must first understand the things that have beenleft unsaid for so long. to do that we need context from people who speak the truthin the face of collective delusion because to understand somethingis to be liberated from it. empires

all a great power has to doto destroy itself is persist in tryingto do the impossible. stephen vizinczey at the end of world war ii, we had 50% of the world'sgross domestic product, we were making 54,000 airplanesa year, 7,000 ships, etc etc. we were the new rome. and we recognized it, and deviseda power management scheme in the 1947 national security actto, we thought, manage it

and it worked fairly wellduring the cold war. but we haven't done anything sinceand i think that is another sign of our inability to graspthe "new world", if you will. empires do not begin or endon a certain date. but they do end, and the west has not yet come to termswith its fading supremacy. at the end of every empire- under the guise of renewal - tribes, armies,and organisations appear and devour the heritageof the former super power,

often from within. in his essay'the fate of empires', the soldier, diplomat and travellerlieutenant-general sir john glubb analysed the lifecycle of empires. he found remarkable similaritiesbetween them all. an empire lasts about 250 years,or ten generations, from the early pioneers to the final conspicuous consumerswho become a burden on the state. six ages definethe lifespan of an empire.

the age of pioneers the age of conquests the age of commerce the age of affluence the age of intellect ending with bread and circusesin the age of decadence. there are common featuresto every age of decadence. an undisciplined,overextended military, the conspicuousdisplay of wealth,

a massive disparitybetween rich and poor, a desire to live offa bloated state and an obsession with sex. but perhapsthe most notorious trait of all is the debasementof the currency. purchasing power of $1 the united statesand great britain both beganon a gold or silver standard, long since abandoned.

rome was no different. so it started on a principlethat was very sound and it was on a silver standard. but as it corruptedfurther and further and further the roman denarius got to the pointwhere it was basically a copper coin and they learnt how to plateand it was washed in silver and in circulationthe plating came off. and at the endall the senators that really did at one timerepresent the people

only were interestedin representing how much wealththey could steal at the top. great empire wealthalways dazzles but beneath the surfacethe unbridled desire for money, powerand material possessions means that dutyand public service are replaced byleaders and citizens who scramble for the spoils. historically

all the signs ofthe demise of the empire are beginning to develop,some are more trenchant that others. this current financialand economic crisis, that sort of thing, alwaysaccompanies the demise of empire. the people of rome were constantly being distractedby the gladiatorial events and the politicians knewthat they did this. whenever there was unrestamong the people they had a huge event going on

and they created a new eventwith lots and lots of gladiators. and every day,we‘re doing that. that is a common traitof declining empires. and so today,in the u.s. for example, you find a tremendous emphasison all kinds of television programmes that distract peoplefrom what's really is going on. sports is a big part of that,as it was in gladiator times. in essence,we've been lulled into a lethargy and we've accepted it.

just as our sports starstoday earn vast sums, so did roman charioteers. in the 2nd century one by the nameof gaius appuleius diocles amassed a fortune of 35 millionsesterces in prize money - equivalent to severalbillion dollars today. strangely, perhaps,there is another profession that is disproportionately hallowedas an empire declines. the romans, the ottomansand the spanish all made celebritiesof their chefs.

and this again is typifyingthe end of an empire, where things were so greatwe have this last oomph of momentum, that we used to be great,and we felt great, and we don't feel it anymore. so everyone is outsearching for it. well, maybe it's in the best foodor the best clothes or the best musicor the best movies or a reality tv showor another magazine. but you can never get enoughof what you don't need.

what you needis a strong moral conviction that is pervasive throughoutthe society... and integrity reigns. there is a vast apathy. there is a vast amoralism,even a political nature to it, that is to say there are vast numbersof people who don't give a damn. and so there is this- natural, i suppose - entropy, any living organismwhich an empire is of course, over time dies. the question is:how does it die?

does it die in a violentcascade of events? or does it dieover a long period of time? the baby-boomer generationwere born into this age of decadence. perhaps unwittingly they've brokenthe unspoken intergenerational contract. through unfettered consumerism,spiraling house prices, and a desire for eternal youth, the baby-boomers have squanderedfuture generations' inheritance. my generation, the generationright after my generation, i think we forgot that little phrasein the preamble to our constitution

which says "and our posterity." all of a suddenit became "us". period. the baby-boom generationwhich i'm a part of has gone and done the biggestmisallocation of capital in the history of mankind. we have had cheap oil or cheap energyis a better way to phrase it, we have had an abundance of ideas and we have chosen a systemand perpetuated it that is probablyone of the worst ways

to use the blessingsthat were bestowed upon us and we are going to pay a pricefor that. human beings are inconsistentand paradoxical. we hope for peaceand immortality, but continually invent new waysto destroy each other. we're capable of the kindest,most noblest acts; and the most horrificatrocities. human beingsare complex creatures. i mean for example we‘re capableright now, at this minute,

of acting in such a wayas to make it likely, if not certain, that our grandchildrenare going to face terrible disasters, and we are consciously actingto accelerate that likelihood even though we alllove our grandchildren. how can we bemore contradictory than that? in spite of allthe economic activities of last 50, 60, 70 years,since the second world war, and all the industrialisation,we have not yet managed to solve the problem of poverty,deprivation, hunger, malnutrition.

millions of people every nightgo to bed without food, and millions of peopleare throwing away their food. waste on the one hand, and poverty and deprivationand hunger on the other hand. malnutrition on the one handand obesity on the other hand. what kind of systemhave we created? why, with such brilliantknowledge on the planet, are we still strugglingto distribute wealth fairly? how has the human race developed aflawed system of government and economics

that serves the fewat the expense of the many? and with such povertyin an age of plenty, why have we nothad the will to change such a vicioussocial structure? greed is the fundamental kind ofingredient for the immoral economy. the problem is not thatthere is not enough in the world. people say that there is povertywe have to create more wealth. there is enough in the worldfor everybody's need - as mahatma gandhi said,

but not for anybody's greed. but is it just greed,or does it go deeper than that? is the problem systemic? banking when plunder becomesa way of life for a group of menliving together in society, they create for themselvesin the course of time a legal systemthat authorises it and a moral codethat glorifies it.

frederic bastiat as a civilizationwe've obviously had a great run. we've done very well -we had the industrial revolution; we survived that. we built a lot ofmodern military technology; we have survived that, so far. we built a banking system, and we're still strugglingwith that part of it, but you know,we've had a good run.

it's kind of like when i was workingon wall street for 7 years i had the experience that some people wouldhave working at a meat processing plant, they become vegetarian, and you work on wall streetand you see how these banks like goldman, j.p. morgan,these other banks make money, when you see money,it kind of makes you sick! well, i think if the people knewwhat the banking system is up to, as henry ford said, there would bea revolution tomorrow morning. the fact is most people think thatwhat a bank does is lend you money

that someone elsehas put in the bank previously. but what a bank actually does,what a commercial bank does, is to create money from nothing,and then lend it to you at interest. if i do that, if i manufacture moneyin my own home it's called counterfeiting. if an accountant creates moneyout of nothing in the company accounts, it's called‘cooking the books', but if a bank does it,it's perfectly legal. and so long as you allowfraud to be legalised

then all kinds of problems are goingto pop up in the economic system you can't doanything about. private bankscreate money out of nothing and lend it at interest. now, that sounds absurd. when i teach sophomores, you know,about money and banking, and how banks...they never believe it. and so you have to go through itagain and again, 'yes, banks really do create money,they really do, here is how it happens.'

and it's absurd!and they're right to doubt that that could possibly bewhat's really going on. but it is! now if the banking lobby is very strong,they're going to say: "well, we don't want to change this system,we're making so much money out of it. what we have to do is: try and convince the people thatit's their fault, that their wages claimsare too high and that's why we're havinglots of inflation,”

or “people arespeculating on housing and that's whyhouse prices are going up." what they're notgoing to say is that this is happening because banksare creating money out of nothing and pumping it into the system,and that's why prices are going up. but how is it that we've ended upwith a system in which banks have the powerto create money? since 1971,when president nixon took the united states offwhat was left of the gold standard,

the world has operated under asystem of money known as 'fiat'. the dollar, the pound, the euroare all government fiat currencies. fiat is a latin wordmeaning 'let it be so'. it is the law that thisgovernment currency be money. indeed,without that legal enforcement and the fact that we must paytaxes with this money, that dollar bill or that computer digitthat represents a dollar would be pretty muchmeaningless. only the government hasthe power to issue fiat money,

but banks can create itthrough lending. over the last 40 years, since this system of fiat moneybecame the global norm, the supply of moneyhas grown exponentially. in fact, we've have seen the greatestgrowth in the supply of money in history. but who benefits? of course, those that havethe power to issue money: governments and banks.

then, those companies and individualsthat get this money early. they can spend it before the pricesof the things they want to buy have risen to reflectthe new money in circulation. in other words, they get services,products or assets cheap. but prices soon rise, so holders of assets,such as houses or shares, will then see gains without therenecessarily being any improvements to the companyor house in question. often this can leadto speculative bubbles.

but what about thoseat the bottom of the pyramid? those on fixedwages or incomes, those who livein remote areas or those with savings? by the time this newly created moneyhas filtered down to them, the prices of the thingsthey want to buy have increased, their savings buy them lesshowever, and their wagesremain largely unchanged. in some casesthey have to take on debt

just to be to afford the thingsthey were previously able to buy, which means they haveto go back to the banks. in reality, this processof creating money only redistributes wealth from the bottomto the top of the pyramid. and thus that ever-increasing gulfbetween rich and poor gets bigger and bigger... ...and bigger. well...

when you get off the gold standardand you go into a fiat money currency combined with a fractionalreserve banking system, you end up compounding debt faster than you can everpossibly produce to support that debt. so eventually you are going tofind yourself back into debt slavery. and that's what's happenedin the u.s. for every dollar gdp,for example, in the u.s. it now also creates somethinglike $5.50 worth of debt,

because this is what happenswhen an economy flips over and basically capsizes. and of course thegovernment solution now to address all the problems is basically to create more debt. you can never get enoughof a currency that doesn't work, you can print it till kingdom comesbut you can't print wealth and you can't get yourself out of debtby making more debt. if you could print wealth

zimbabwe would be the largest, mostprosperous country on the planet - we all know it doesn't work. of the money in the world today,97% is of it is debt. the french philosopher voltaireonce said, 'all paper money eventually returnsto its intrinsic value - zero'. for three generations the world watched the fightbetween capitalism and communism.

but in the 1980's the russian economystarted to collapse, the soviet union capitulated and so-called capitalismreigned supreme... before 1989 we had a battlebetween communism and the market. and in that battlethere was a sense of 'let's not expose the flawsin the market economy.' this is too importantof a battle that you don't criticize‘our team' while we're fighting‘their team'.

and their team,social authoritarianism, with a failure to deliver wellbeingto their society, it was very clear that if you hadto choose between these two, which was better? communism failed firstfor various reasons: it was inefficient, human rightslack of respect and so-forth. so capitalist west has been continuingin a triumphalist mode thinking"our adversary has failed, that meanswe're doing everything right".

both systems are tryingto do something which is fundamentally impossible: grow forever. and they're both going to fail.one failed first. capitalism's going to fail...later. or it's failing now. america right nowis in a very interesting position. because in the past200 - 300 years of its history it's a culture and countrywhich has almost always existed

on the assumption thatresources could be expanded. if there was a problemyou always tried to deal with it by expanding the pie,‘go west young man'. make the pie bigger so thateveryone has got a bigger piece. now it's facing a worldwhere possibly resources are beginning to bemore constrained, and where it's going to haveto divide up that pie, and inflict pain on people. and that's somethingwhich it is not well prepared for.

how has the countrymoved so far from the intentionsof its founding fathers? how has the american dreambecome so distorted? over the last 30 to 40 years capitalism has takenthis extreme form, and a lot of it goes back tothe economist milton friedman, from the chicago school and ronald reagan,and margaret thatcher, and others buying intothese policies,

that really encouraged peopleto take on huge amounts of debt, encouraged privatisation, smaller governments supposedly, although bigger militaries,so actually... ...the government spending goes up.u.s. military spending. deregulation, getting ridof rules that govern the people who run our institutions,especially our corporations. it's as though we are suddenlyare supposed to believe that the human beings who stoodat the top of corporations

don't need to be regulated.they are some sort of... gods! milton friedman,his protã©gã©s, the chicago boys, and the neoclassical ideology beat the classical approachto economics and became the frameworkfor what we today call capitalism. there are two maincompeting economic approaches which determinehow we humans manage the worldand distribute wealth.

these are the classicaland neoclassical schools. the classical school favoursless government interference, more personal autonomy and recognizes that humans cannotfunction without natural resources. the neo-classical school, which has a more dismissive viewof natural resources, thinks governmentshould rule the economy, solve social problems and leave the free market tolook after the distribution of wealth.

the neo-classical school emergedaround 100 years ago due to vested interests' desireto protect their assets. this meant that neo-classicalmathematical models and assumptions were divorced from reality. they are based on"what ought to be" instead of the classical modelswhich are based on "what actually is". it's these neo-classical models- which favour large corporations - that have been usedto legitimise the financializationof the global economy.

championed by ronald reaganand margaret thatcher, neo-classical economicsstill dominates policy-making today. the reagan revolution,as it's called in the u.s., obviously thereagan-thatcher revolution, to think about itmore globally was a big changein power structure and a big transferof opportunity and wealth. now it's not thatthe poor gave it to the rich, it was a transferwithin the well-to-do,

so that the financial sectorin particular in the u.s. for example, but alsoin the uk and some other places, became vastly more profitable, and wages in that sector went up a lot, we focused on bonuses, but also basesalaries went up - overall compensation. so there is a transfer from thenon-financial part of the economy to the financial partof the economy that actually is unprecedented as far as we can seein any of the available data to us and i'm talking about all ofthe recorded human history.

in 1932, in the aftermath of america'sgreat stock market crash, a piece of legislation was passedto protect society. the glass-steagall actwas introduced to separateordinary high street banking from investment banking. 67 years later,in 1999 - under the influence oftreasury secretary larry summers and his predecessor robert rubin -

president bill clinton repealedthe glass-steagall act. once again banks could takeordinary depositors' money and speculate with iton virtually anything they liked. wall street has becomea very particular type of casino. and it's unfortunately not the kindof casino they have in las vegas which is, you know, a perfectlylegitimate form of entertainment. it is a casinothat has massive negative repercussionson the rest of society. so it's not just losing your moneyon a few wild nights,

it's about the way in whichthose organisations lose their money impacting the whole of society leading to a massive loss of jobs. u.s. unemployment rate this unfettered gambling pushed the entire global financialsystem to near collapse. with balancesand debt obligations larger than the gdpof entire countries, the banks had becometoo big to fail.

the west was unprepared and bankers met their reelingand disorientated governments: "you have to bail us out,we need money, if you don't give us the moneythe whole thing goes down. and what are you going to do withmillions and tens of millions of people who have lost everythingin their bank account? you will have a revolutionon your hands. so fork over the money. borrow... borrow the money,

create it out of nothingand give it to us, so that we canface our problems and not go under... or otherwise." and this is what mr hank paulsondid in the u.s. congress. he just went there one dayand he told them: "we need $700 billion,and we need it now - or else." is this system we call capitalismreally capitalism? in a capitalist systemgovernment is supposed to be small.

but today the state is more bloatedand invasive than it's ever been. individuals and companies aresupposed to operate in a free market. good enterpriseis rewarded with profit and flawed enterprisewith failure. but duringthe 2008 banking crisis the people sawthe western economic system divided in a way they were toldcould never happen. socialism for the rich,capitalism for the poor. and in america for example

the banks that got in troublegot bailed out by the government, that's socialism. and they... people are arguing againstsocialism in america, and yet this is probably the most socialistcountry in the world right now. we have a system which isn't evena proper capitalist system; rich people make mistakes,they don't get punished, poor people make mistakesand they get punished, or even worse,that they don't make any mistake and they are forced to payfor the mistakes of the rich.

when the taxpayeris footing the bill for the misplacedspeculation of bankers then suddenly instead of the economyserving the human being, the human being is nowin perpetual service to amoral financial organisations. it was the head of thefederal reserve bank, alan greenspan who, after 9/11,slashed interest rates to encourage lending. bankers needednew participants

to keep cash flowinginto a system that had becomea global pyramid scheme. all this newly created moneyentered the housing market and created unprecedented inflation - house prices rose and rose. new mothers were forced backinto the workplace to service huge home loans and the anglo-american dreambecame all about land speculation. the housing market in the westisn't about ownership.

the housing market'sin the west because it's the only wayordinary people can get ahead, and ordinary peoplecan't get ahead but by wages. what we've created is a massbubble economics around housing, as that sucks ina huge amount of capital, takes capital for genuineinnovations in the economy, and puts itinto a speculative use that has no genuineproductive outcome. it's interesting, if you talk topeople in germany, for example,

they don't see a connection betweenowning a piece of property and their being inclinedtowards being democratic. there are lots of peoplewho rent their housing there and they are perfectly comfortablewith that arrangement. but it is true thatin somewhat different contexts both mr reagan and mrs thatcherpushed for more people to own housing, and actually this is partof the problem because if you push peopleto buy housing before they are ready, if you pushvery dubious loans on them,

and they don't understand whatthey're getting themselves into, you can have hugeadverse repercussions. exactly what led to,in part, the subprime housing crisisin the united states. that's not anything to dowith democracy that's just a bad economic idea. the breakthrough that occurredaround the year 2000 in the u.s. was when bankers found outthat the poor are honest. they realised that if you're poor,if you're not rich,

you have a different set of values and you thinkthat a debt is a debt and it's somethingthat has to be paid. and the people will try to paythe debts that they are stuck with, even if the debts are not valid. even if the debts aremuch more than they expected, even if they reallycan't pay the debts. the lending and bankinginstitutions, when they drew up contracts

with interest rates,with flexible interest rates, i think they knewin the beginning that these problemswere going to come back later on when folks weren't going to be ableto afford the mortgages. as the interest rates increased,they put a lot of people in situations where they weretaking food out of refrigerators, taking kids outof higher education, they're not ableto afford college anymore, and it is making a really,really bad situation worse.

the banks engagedin what was a criminal conspiracy, to charge moreto the blacks and hispanics. the banks got together,backed the bush administration, to block the state prosecutionsof racial lending in order to exploitand charge more to the minorities. these were loanswhich were made by one of the major lenders in the cityand in this country, wells fargo, in which wells fargo targetedminority communities in the city;

put borrowers into loansthat they could not afford, put borrowers into loansthat were of the subprime variety, therefore more expensive andless advantageous to the borrowers. hiding predatory lending practices in the small printof complex financial products was only ever goingto enrich one set of interests. many of the communities in whichafrican-americans live in the city, were establishing momentum, there was development activitythat was occurring, we were seeing

signs of vitality in manyof these communities, and... the results of thewells fargo foreclosures and the subprime lending practicesof that lender, and others, has significantly impaired thatprogress and brought it to a halt. they don't comeinto the heart of it. like you in the heart of itso you see, they don't really see the trouble ifthey don't come into the heart of it, they stay on the outside of it. that's like lookingat the cover of a book

and seeing the outside of a bookbut if you don't go inside the book, then you will never knowwhat the book is about. so they're not worryingabout nobody else but themselves. and i think it's wrong, because if theycome in the heart of it and they see, they'd be willing to help. what happened in baltimore is just one example of whatis happening all around the world. one way to frame this injustice is by branding it a race issue.

but when we look really closely we can see that there issomething at play here that transcends race. profit. not an accident for instance,that we had the deregulation of our financial industrythat was such a disaster. the lobbyistsof the finance industry amount to fiveper congress person. they pay five peoplefor every congressman

to explain to them,persuade them, that they should pass legislationthat is favorable to the financial industry. the poor peoplewho are devastated don't have the money. they couldn't hirefive per congressman. so the way our democracy works -it's an unlevel playing field. the financial sectorhas acquired enormous power, partly through political contributions,so buying favours,

but mostly throughideological control, convincing peoplethat finance is good, more finance is better and unregulated financewithout limit is best. and that is reallythe cornerstone of this, what we call in the u.s., thewall street-washington corridor. i mean if people need any proofas to who is controlling washington, when the bailout cameafter lehman brothers collapsed, 80% of the populationwere against the bailout.

notwithstanding that,the congress passed the bailout just showing,in my view anyway, that it's really under the controlof banking interests. it's not a reflectionof good democracy when a company, a groupof companies, an industry, says: "our interests are more importantthan the national interest." how can that happen?very easy: that's the role of campaigncontributions, lobbying in america's political structure.

we have a flawed democracy. this is an advanced oligarchy,in the sense that its main mechanismof control, if you like, is through convincing peoplethat you really need, for example, the 6 biggest banksin the united states, in the particularform they exist today, with the very light levelof regulation. and if you don't have them,if you try to change that, all kinds of awful thingswill happen.

and this is notreally blackmail. it sounds like blackmail, but theyconvince you it's not blackmail, it's just the way the world is, there'snothing you can do about it. oh my goodness, you justhave to cooperate with them. yeah, it's very clever. the fed is essentially the lobbyist for thecommercial banking system. when you say you want to turnregulation over to the fed, you are sayingthe financial sector and wall street

should be self-regulated. and wall streethas veto power over whoever is going to bethe head of the federal reserve. as long as you give veto powerover the regulators to wall street, as long as you pickthe bank regulators from the banking industry itself, you can forget any thought of calling it"regulation". it's "deregulation". and to call it"regulation" instead of "deregulation" is using orwelliandouble-think.

democracyis government by the people. plutocracyis government by the rich. in a typical plutocratic state economic inequality is high, social mobility low, and, because of continuousexploitation of the masses, workers find it nearly impossibleto climb out of poverty. the equal voting rights movementin the early 20th century abolished a system where rich peoplehad more votes than poor people,

but today lobbyinghas put pay to that and reduced theamerican political system to a mere clearing housefor the concerns of the rich. the goldman sachs machineis one of using profits to buyinfluence in washington, to change laws to make it easierto make money on wall street, to be used to buy influencein washington. so it's a self-reinforcingmalfeasance machine that is continuing to grow

as a parasite in the economy and continuing to kill the host. famous for claiming it did‘god's work', goldman sachs is one of the most influentialinvestment banks in the world. its alumni often occupypositions of great influence in governmentsand central banks. in september 2008, barely a month beforethe stock market crash, goldman - supposedlya pillar of the free market -

changed its banking statusfrom investment to commercial. this meant it was now eligiblefor state protection. socialism for the rich,right there. goldman sachs are extremelyefficient at what they do. their task is to make money, they make bank robberslike willie sutton look like modest amateurs. they're huge bank robbers, but it's legal.

the system is set upso that they can do it. in the recent yearsthey have been selling securities put together from mortgagesthat they knew were worthless, so they are selling these thingsto unwitting consumers, making a ton of moneyout of it. meanwhile, they are bettingthat they're going to fail because they know thatwhat they are peddling is rotten. so they placed bets with creditdefaults, and lots of other things with the hugeinsurance company aig,

and that was insuringgoldman sachs against the failureof the stuff they are peddling. during america's subprime collapse goldman traders michael swensonand josh birnbaum made a $4 billion profitby short selling junk mortgages. backed by dan sparks, internally goldman sachs calledtheir position the ‘big short' and bet against their own clients. senator carl levin

called goldman sachschief executive lloyd blankfein to a senate subcommitteeto testify under oath. much has been said aboutthe supposedly massive short goldman sachs hadon the u.s. housing market. the fact is, we were not consistentlyor significantly net short the market in residential mortgage-relatedproducts in 2007 and 2008. we didn't have a massive shortagainst the housing market, and we certainlydid not bet against our clients. riding the big short in 2007made billions of dollars for goldman.

and so far, they've got away scot freewith this massive heist. so they're now back, biggerthan before, richer than before, biggest profits they've hadin history, huge bonuses... they're doing great! a lot of what they are doing has,in fact, probably... maybe all of it, has almost nothing to dowith the benefit of the economy. can there be any objection to genuinely talented peopleearning big money

if they bring something newand tangible to the world, if they take great personal riskswith their own money, and actually bringgreater prosperity for all? in a free market,if i have a brilliant idea that i can run an automobileon grass clippings, as an example, and i produce that car, my motivation might beto make money. but if the market says:"my goodness, this is the greatest automobileever invented by mankind",

and i make a billion dollars,i've not only served myself but i have served everyone elsethat needs transportation. and that is the brillianceof our free market, is that paradox that you can serve yourselfand simultaneously serve others. and that's what it's all about. but how many of the general publichave achieved greater prosperity through a banker's bonus? it was against the holy backdropof st paul's cathedral in london that goldman sachs vice-chairmanand mouthpiece lord griffiths,

gave insight intohow certain bankers really think. the devoted christiandefended extortionate bonuses: "i am not a person of despair,i am a person of hope. and i think that we haveto tolerate the inequality as a way to achieving greaterprosperity and opportunity for all." a fundamental christian view,and i would say of islam as well, and certainly of judaism, is that wealth is to be shared. money has to be shared.you can't take it with you.

and from thatdevelops a whole lot of stuff about justice andthe economy and so on. and we've lost that,and instead we've got peopleaccumulating more and more. and i just think it's... i just think it's disgustingthat people have... lost their homes,they've lost their jobs, they can't paytheir mortgages, from bankerswho made a big mistake

and then paid enormousbonuses. i am sorry, that is simply wrong, and i can't understand why we are not more... vociferous about that. when rich people tell you thatthey specifically have to be rich through these egregiousrip-off mechanisms, that's just self-servingpropaganda and it should be disregarded.

it is true that if you... when you organise human society,some people get ahead and some people struggle. that's a natural mechanism. but saying: "oh,we've got to have inequality therefore goldman sachsmust be organised along the following lines", that's a complete non-sequitur. at what juncture, what point,

does morality enterinto economic calculus? in a way, many people think thatadam smith gave us a free pass; a way not to thinkabout morality, because what adam smithsaid was that individuals in the pursuitof their self-interest are led, as ifby an invisible hand, to the general well beingof society. now let me make it clear,adam smith didn't really say that.

that is, adam smithwas very much aware that businesseswhen they got together conspired against the publicinterest, raised prices, he was aware of monopoly, he was aware ofthe importance of education, that the private sectorcouldn't provide, so he himself is awareof all of the limitations, but his latter day descendents have forgotten all those caveats.

adam smith was the godfatherof classical economics. but since its publication, his work has been usedas a political football - financiers twisting his wordsto suit them. lord griffiths advocates ruthlessindividualism to push this idea that if bankers get richthen we get rich too through a process known astrickledown economics or horse-and-sparrow theory.

if you feed the horse enough oats some will pass throughto the road for the sparrows. the idea is that extreme wealthconcentrated on small minority will eventually trickle downto everyone else. but it doesn't work. because by the timethe money reaches the people at the bottom ofour money pyramid, it has lostits purchasing power. but the public are now confused

as to why our political leadershave allowed this to happen and quite naturally,now ask: why? because our political processesare badly flawed. they are badly flawed because of the dependence onlobbyists and campaign contributions. so that's why my view, and a viewof i think a lot of people, is that we have to restructureour political processes to give more voiceto the ordinary citizen

and less voice to the interest group,to money groups, to those who have takensuch a large role in shaping our tax codeand our regulations and so forth. i stood on the front stepof colin powell's house. and i look at him and i say"what next, boss?" and he says"what do you mean?" and i said "what next...where are you going next?" "i am writing a book." i said "i know you are goingto write your book,

but you are not going to do thatfor the rest of your life, where are you going next?" he said "maybea cabinet position, but first... but first... money." i said "money?"he said "yeah, millions. that's the only wayyou can be a cabinet officer in the american government" "oh, wow." the democrats and the republicansare beholden to corporate interests,

and until they become un-beholdento those corporate interests we will never havea well-governed republic. terrorism political language... is designed to makelies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearanceof solidity to pure wind. george orwell the inherent iniquity in our systemof money, banking and politics

has not just had consequencesdomestically, but also on amassive scale globally. western leaders have presented their military campaign in iraq,afghanistan and pakistan as a moral obligation. but are thereother reasons for it? the first financial beneficiaryof america's foreign policy is the military. in particular, those who supply itwith arms and equipment.

the military has won wars, but how successful has it beenin its bigger aim to eradicate terrorism? the drone attacksnot only failed but they've createdextra extremism. they've helped inradicalisation of youth in the north west frontier and also incertain parts of punjab and pakistan. and because time after time...and sometimes, you know... there's a feeling that americadoes this deliberately,

to de-stabilise pakistan. i am not so sure about that,but i certainly think those people whoactually support this policy, every time you kill ten,the so called ‘terrorist', you create 500 more,because they see the drone attacks as an attack on thesovereign state of pakistan. if they really wantedto flush them out, there was no need for ahuge military operation in swat, causing the entire district to becomeinternally displaced persons.

the population of swatis 1.8 million, there are 2.3 million refugeesin the country, the whole districthas been emptied. this wouldn't havebeen necessary if they had carried out a surgicalcommando operation to get the militant leaders. but they allowed themto escape, all of them. after the military,the next financial beneficiary are those who win the contractsto conduct the rebuilding process.

in the west, people might evenfeel optimistic when they hear that the u.s. is pumping tens of billionsof newly-created dollars into developing nationsto build infrastructure. but often this too doesn't seemto achieve the publicized goals. is there another reasonwe give these countries aid? we economic hit men have createdthe world's first truly global empire. and we've done it primarilywithout the military. we work many different ways, but perhaps the most common isthat we'll take a third world country

that has resourcesour corporations covet, like oil, and then arrange a huge loanto that country from the world bankor one of its sister organisations. however, the money neveractually goes to the country. instead it goesto our own corporations to build infrastructure projectsin that country, power plants, highways,industrial parks, things that benefit a fewwealthy families in that country, as well as our corporations,

but don't help the majorityof the people at all. they are too poorto buy electricity or drive cars on the highways, and don't have the skillsto get jobs in industrial parks. but they are left holdinga huge debt. infrastructure... which has used heavy loans from the world bank and imf, and made from groundsfrom western countries,

they've all gone into benefittingthe elite and the feudal classes, and they have notbenefitted the people. a lot of money goes to these consultants andcompanies from the west, who chargehuge amounts of money and actually the real moneyon projects and on ordinary people is very limited. the masseshave very little already, so those landlordswho have the infrastructure

and who are goingto make money because of the infrastructurethat is built through their roads, they will prosper. but the ones whodon't have any resources, they've not had jobs, there isn't aneconomic activity for them in terms ofmanufacturing goods, so they can selland they can also prosper. when you don't have that,what do they do?

they resort to joining the taliban, because they seethe enemy coming in and taking awaywhat little bit they have. president obama, i understand,wants to invest $7.5 billion in pakistan's infrastructure to alleviate poverty and, you know,take away all the divisions, and all the anti-americansentiment over here. but whatever his reasons are,we can do without it. in fact it's the worstpossible thing he can do.

this kind of help is actuallygoing to be a hindrance; it is just goingto make matters worse, it will bring this contrivedwar on terror into our rural areas. how much of u.s. foreign policyis genuinely altruistic? and how much is it influencedby the banks and corporations that profit so tremendouslyfrom it? america's evangelismof democracy is riddled with contradictions,

not least of whichthis idea of promoting democracyat the point of a gun, or opposing regimeswhich are democratic, but not in the waythat america wants. so too this idea that america has beenpromoting free market capitalism has also been riddledwith contradictions. because the reality is that americanfirms tend to make most money when countries areat the cusp of change, certainly americanfinancial firms,

and in a sense, they want marketsthat are changing structurally but not too freeand too transparent because they make moneywhen markets are a bit opaque. is it any wonder developed nations are fightingin underdeveloped countries when so many are makingso much money out of it, without ever reallyhaving to face up to or even witness theconsequences of their actions?

"so what if 5 million kidsdied in africa because of debt last year. you know i got a bonusof a million pounds, and..." if i have that conversation,i have had it with some... bankers who've beenin the business a long time, and... they listen politely,they are very polite, very charming, and at the end they say: "well, tarekit's very lovely meeting you again", and they go back to the office and do another loan dealfor tanzania or something.

i've known a lot of ‘terrorists',quote-unquote. i've met them,i've interviewed them for books, i've known them sincei was an economic hit man, i've never met onewho wanted to be a terrorist. they all wanted to be withtheir families, back on the farm. they're driven to terrorismbecause they've lost the farm. it's been inundated with waterfrom a hydro-electric project, or with oil from oil derricks. their farm has been destroyed.

they can't make a livingfor their kids. or in the case ofthe somali pirates, their fishing watershave been destroyed. and that's whythey've turned to this, it isn't because theywant to be pirates or terrorists. now there may bea few crazy people, there are a few crazy people,people with their nuts loose, there'll always be serial killers,there'll always be crazy people, maybe osama bin ladenis one of them,

but they do not get a following unless there's a terribleinjustice going on, and people are starvingand they're deprived, and then they will followthese crazy people because they seem to offeran alternative. if we want to do awaywith terrorism, if we want to have what wein the u.s. call ‘homeland security', we've got to recognise that the whole planetis our homeland.

what does the word'terrorist' actually mean? many "terrorists" would soonerdescribe themselves as 'freedom fighters'. could it be thatthe charge of "terrorism" could just as easily be made against western corporations,speculators and policy-makers? when we talk about terrorismit means what they do to us. not what we do to them. and what they do to uscan be pretty ugly, although...

it's not even a fractionof what we do to them. i mean, take, say, 9/11. that was a pretty seriousact of terrorism. maybe the worst single actof terrorism in history. but it could have been worse. suppose for example that al qaedahad bombed washington, bombed the white house,they killed the president, installed a harshmilitary dictatorship, and brought ina bunch of economists

who drove the economyinto its worst disaster in history. that would have beenworse than 9/11. and i am not making it up,it happened. it's called the first 9/11in south america, namely in chile. on 11th september 1973 the democratically electedchilean president salvador allende was overthrown in a coup. a dictatorship underaugusto pinochet was established

that ruled chile until 1990. there was the systematic suppressionof all political dissidence. thousands were imprisonedand murdered. who was involvedin that first 9/11? it's not hard to find them. they were right in washingtonand london, and so on. but that's off the agenda,that doesn't count. there is a principle of ideology that we must neverlook at our own crimes.

we should on the other handexalt in the crimes of others, and in our own nobilityin opposing them. the root causesof so-called "terrorism" will not be solved by increasingeconomic inequality. if governments really are seriousabout combating terrorism then they must start with realstructural reform back home. as long as banking empires chase infrastructure and debt dealsin pursuit of profit, the west will continue to exportinjustice through finance.

millions more will be displaced, terrorism will thrive, and neocolonialism will continue to end moreand more lives around the world. resources the things you ownend up owning you tyler durden what's happened isthat we have moved from a relatively empty worldto a relatively full world

- that is empty of usand all of our stuff, to now full of usand all of our stuff. in my lifetimethe world population has tripled. and the populationsof other things, of cars, houses, boats... all these other things that puta load on the environment too, just like human bodies, those havevastly more than tripled. so the world is very, very fullof what we might call

man-made capital. and it's becoming more and moreempty of what used to be there, what we might callnatural capital. we are the first generation; we in the rich developed worldare the first generation to have got to the end of the real benefits ofeconomic growth. for hundreds of years the best way of raisingthe real quality of human life

has been to raisematerial living standards. and that's what's driventhe huge rises in life expectancy and increases in happiness and other measures of well being. but all those have now becomedetached from economic growth. and although life expectancycontinues to rise in the rich world, it's no longer related to the amount of economic growtha country has at all. and the same is truefor measures of happiness

and measures of well-being. the paradox isthe more we grow, the more poverty we create. our self-interestedeconomic system seems to be continuallymissing a trick. so as we keep plunderingthe earth's natural capital is it time to rethink ourwestern definition of progress? when i look at the world,i look at it much the way royal dutch shelllooks at it.

they have one of the best strategicentities in the world, private or public, and royal dutch shellhas posited two scenarios. one is called blueprint,and is obviously a planned corporate structurewhere world leaders get together and they think about thingslike energy transformation, planetary warming, and dwindlingfossil fuels, and so forth. the other is called scramble. and scramble is pretty muchwhat it sounds like too...

it's a mess. interestingly enough,in 2075 - the ending year forthese scenarios, as i recall - we get to about the same place. it's just that blueprint leaves a lotless blood on the floor. scramble leaves a lot of bloodon the floor, as people fight for these resourcesand so forth. the reason oil companiesare drilling miles under the sea is that the world'seasily-accessible oil

has already been foundand, largely, consumed. not only areoil supplies dwindling, major new metals discoveries are becoming increasingly rare. 40% of the world's agricultural landis seriously degraded and ever more volatile yields continue to be unevenly distributed. it may be that the loomingenvironmental threat is not global warming

but the exhaustionof the world's resources. we're going to have struggles for finding the lands sufficientto grow the agricultural products for what the un says is will bea 9 billion earth population. we're going to struggle over non-renewable fossil fuels,as they run out - i think shell posits about2075 they'll be gone, and we are going to struggleover things like water and other precious resources

that are necessary to our lifeand to our economy. and, this could be, as shell says,a blueprint affair, with world leaders working togetherto share and share alike or it could be a real mess, and shell incidentallybets on the mess. just like the baby-boomers failure to look to the next generation our outdated competitive mentality for a world of depleted resources

could havedevastating consequences. our economic set-upencourages one-upmanship, competition and comparison, whereas the progresshumans have made over millennia has been largely basedon cooperation. in any species,in almost any animal, there is always the potentialfor huge conflict, because within any species, all members of that specieshave the same needs.

so they might fight each otherfor food, and shelter, and nest sitesand territory and sexual partners,all that kind of thing. but human beings have always hadthe other possibility. we have the possibility to bethe best source of support and loveand assistance and cooperation. much more sothan any other animal. and so other peoplecan be the best or the worst. you can be my worst rival

or my best source of support. in a progressive societyto meet our common economic, socialand cultural needs we must move from globalisationto localisation. the benefits of a communal senseof fellowship, responsibility and purpose in a life driven by production,not consumption would lead to happinessand satisfaction. indeed we must ask:

have our modern consumeristlifestyles made us happy? i think if one had been livingin the 19th century and somebody had told youthat 100 years later people were going to be living in this extraordinarywealth and comfort, you know, with central heating,and being able to throw away such a high proportionof our food as we do, we'd imagine thatwe'd be living in a state of extraordinarysocial harmony, and...

everything would be rosy. and it's really quite remarkablethe contrast between, if you like, the material successof our societies and the social failure. the growth economy demands thatwe make consumption a way of life. he who ‘dies with the most toys'became the ambition and retail replacedspiritual satisfaction. unsurprisingly,sales of anti-depressants sky rocketed.

the fact is thatthe world economy over the last few years,a good share of my lifetime has been builteither on the military, or on producing itemsthat most people don't need. and really don't even wantif you come right down to it, but we all got to have them. consumerism is driven byour extraordinarily social nature, that we want to have the stuff so we look goodin other people's eyes.

it's because i experience myselfthrough other people's eyes, their feelings of shameand embarrassment or pride, and... maybe feeling envied,all those things. so... the goods are justa way of, if you like, mediating the relationshipbetween yourself and others in this extraordinarilyalienated hierarchy. what's really suffered ishuman relationships, family life, the things thatreally matter to us. and in the end the only thingthat makes human beings happy,

isn't money, it's very clearthat past a certain level you only get marginal gainsfrom wealth. what really makes us happyis other people. it's our relationshipwith other people that's really being damagedby the last 30 years. we trust them less,we have less interaction with them, we bond less than ever before,we marry less, and marriage is under morethreat than ever before, and all the associationsthat represent

sort of permanent,unconditional human affection are being eroded or damaged. and that is the real legacyof the last 30 years. and in some sense we've got torecover and re-humanise our lives. otherwise, not only will they benasty, brutish and short, but they'll be lonely. the west is comingto the realisation that its human projectis failing. the west was so convinced

that if you push peopleto achieve as individuals, that accumulated achievementof individuals would make fora successful society. and what the westis now beginning to realise is that the individual achievement, without incorporatingthe vulnerable community is a myth. the idea was:"make your own life, be individually aspiring,

and then you'll beindividually achieving, and then you'll beindividually prosperous, and then you'll beindividually happy." you end up doing thatin a glass jar and the glass jarhas a limited height, and it is encapsulating, and in the end you dieof lack of oxygen. human beings are alivebecause they seek attachment, and because they're propelled

by affection. so, the isolatedachieving individual in the end implodes. in order to find a purpose in lifeit has to be outside yourself. it matters not how youconstruct it outside yourself as long as it is a positive valueadded to society pursued. but it has to be outside yourself,it can't be yourself. if you are pursuing yourself you are pursuing the abyssas nietzsche said,

you are going to wind upin the abyss. progress i have never let my schoolinginterfere with my education. mark twain one of the most powerfulcultural frameworks that shapes the way we thinktoday in the west is the hollywoodfilm construction. and it follows a particularcultural pattern in that there is a beginning,there is a middle, and an end.

there is drama, tension,there is resolution, there is usually a goodieand a baddie and there is usually a story to holdthe medium of human beings. this hollywoodisationof the way that people communicate, and the way they tell storiesabout themselves, and view their recent history, has very much impacted how we look at the financial crisis in that people look at the beginning,the middle and the end, they look at the dramaaround lehman brothers,

and they wanted, say,a resolution. and they wanted baddies, they wantedsacrificial victims as well. so people have focusedon a few individuals. and the idea that somehow it wasn't just one or two individualswho were at the root of the problem, it was a systemic problem, that actually almost everyone whoparticipated was in some way guilty, either ofoutright negligence or simply failing to askthe right questions,

or simply failing to ask why moneywas so cheap for so many years. the idea that it wasa systemic flaw is something which isvery hard for people to grasp, and even harder to depictas a good story. perhaps there is this feelingof helplessness because we don't understandwhat the real problem actually is. cleansing a few 'bad apples'will not rectify the flaws at the heart ofthe western economic system. a system that should beprotecting people

is in fact the very thing that'senabling our four horsemen to ride with such vengeance. the modern day four horsemen - a rapacious financial system, and the exhaustionof the earth's resources - are riding roughshod over thosewho can least afford it. they gallop unchallengedbecause the cognitive map that's been put in place by ourschools, universities and our media does not encourage usto question accepted norms.

instead there is apathy. in a sense i think we arerather depressed societies. we've got used to the idea thatthere's nothing that can be done, there is no alternative,that, you know, we are never going to deal withthese environmental problems and we live in a dog-eat-dog society,and that's it. i think what we haveto take away from this, is a recognition that... most of these problemscan be very substantially improved

by making our societiesmore equal, reducing the income differences. and that also helps us to solvethe environmental problems. we can reach a society that isqualitatively better for all of us. well the apathyis sort of engineered because you don't have any discussionof this in the public media. hardly by surprise,the public media are owned by the real estateand the financial interests, and they are not goingto explain to people

the integration between the financial,insurance and real estate sectors - the fire sector. there's this disinformationgoing on, passing the buck, denyingwhat the real driving factors are. all of these are common strategies. in fact even in education you can see that bankshave helped to set up universities they've funded them,they fund think tanks, they have educational foundations,they own newspapers.

all of this stuff is going onas a kind of propaganda exercise so that the people don't actuallywork out what the problem is. you should not assumebecause, you know, you don't have a backgroundin economics or in law, that these issues are somehowtoo complex for you. they're not complex at all,it's very simple. it's about power,and it's about democracy. and you understand thatjust as well as i do. one source of this disinformation

is the neo-classicalschool of economics. these economists and academicshave been successful in convincing the worldthat their models were gospel. but just as gutenberg's printing presswas revolutionary in the 16th century today we are at the dawnof internet enlightenment which will removethe cloud of ignorance upheld by academicand media gatekeepers. education can be a formof mass mind control and it's astonishing that todayneo-classical economics

continues to be taughtin all ivy league universities. i do get letters from students in economics departmentsat other universities. they're in some graduate programmeor something, and they say: "i have just readsuch and such that you wrote, and this is the kind of thingthat interests me. i'm stuck in this programme here in which i can't eventalk about any of that. what's your advice?what should i do?"...

what they're teaching you iswhat you're going to have to oppose, a lot of it. i mean some of it's useful,go ahead and learn it, and the reason for learningthe rest of it is: know your enemy. an individual might not be ableto change the system, but they can change themselves. if we're not offeredproper education, we must begin our own. and a good place to start

is to become re-acquaintedwith the classical economists. and with somethingthat so few question, but that affects us all: our system of money. if the monetary systemof the world is not reformed then we are headed towardsthe end of industrial civilisation. i won't say that we are goingto the end of humanity, but it's just going to be absolute collapse of our worldas we have known it,

because it can notfunction on fiat money. and none of thosewho are responsible for this want to admit it,but that is the fact. the fiat system of moneyis a man made law, and it's been abused. is there a form of moneywhose law is not set by man? when you lookat natural law and gold... i sort of describe gold asbeing a natural form of money. all of the gold that has beenmined throughout history

still exists in it'sabove ground stock. it's about the size of 2 ?olympic swimming pools, if you put all that goldtogether in one place. the key is that thisabove ground stock of gold grows by about 1 ? % per annum, which is approximately equalto new world population growth, and is approximately equal tonew wealth creation. so, the net result of thisis that... you have thisvery good consistency

in gold's purchasing powerover long periods of time because the supply-demand equationis very much in balance. to achieve human liberty you really need to havesound money, and gold is the only wayto do that because only gold is outsideof the control of politicians. with modern man mademonetary processes, a chronic excess of debt hasbuilt up at every level of society. debt is nowregarded as normal.

it isn't. it's a form of slavery. but how muchdo we question our debt? and what should wenow do about it? the classic example,most recently of a debt cancellation, was the german economic miraclein 1947. the allies cancelled all domestic and internationalgerman debts except for the debts that employersowed their employees

for the previous few weeks, and except fora basic working balance that everybody was ableto keep in the bank in order to buy foodfor the next few weeks or so. essentially you would followthe five or six pages that the currency reformof 1947 did in germany. you would startwith a clean slate. that means that everybodywould own their property free and clear.

and the problem here isthat you'd wipe off the savings that are thecounterparts to the debt. that actually would not besuch a bad thing if you look at the factthat the... wealthiest 1%of americans have concentrated an enormous amount of wealthin their own hands, more than at any earlier timesince statistics have been kept. our system of taxationalso needs addressing. currently we're taxedon what we produce.

perhaps it would bemore progressive to tax what we consume. how many american people realisethat the founding fathers never intended americansto be taxed on their labour? in other words, they weren't meantto pay income tax. the tax systemthat was exported from britain, a relic of colonialism,has duped the world. the most important elementof a tax system is to do what everybodyexpected to be done

in the 19th century, and that is to basethe tax system on land taxation, on the free lunch of land value, and on what john stuart millcalled the 'unearned increment'. the income that landlords madein their sleep, as he put it. who made oil in the ground,coal or iron ore? these are things which are notthe product of human effort, of course extracting them is,but their existence is not.

and so the rentsfrom natural resources are a wonderfulsource of taxation. nobody made them, so... and when you do tax them, you cause all othersto use them more efficiently. so this seems like reallythe excellent thing to tax, rather than labour and capital. if the governments usethis land site value that's supplied by nature,

not by human labour,not by a personal enterprise, then the governmentwould not have to tax wages in the form of income tax, it wouldn't haveto apply sales tax that adds to the priceof doing business, and it wouldn't have to addthe proliferation of business taxes. this tax system - advocated byall the classical economists - would begin to addressglobal poverty as it would allow citizensin developing countries

to keep their resource wealth. in developed countries it would begin to addressour housing and debt crisis and unleashthe kind of entrepreneurship needed to refloatour economies. perhaps we shouldalso resurrect another timeless principlefor workers that was promotedduring the industrial revolution. the idea that people who workin a plant ought to own it,

is just deeply built intoworking class culture. so right around here at the early industrial revolutionin the late 19th century, working people simplytook for granted, that yes, of course, the workers should ownthe mills in which they work. anything else is an attackon our fundamental rights as free citizens. they also took for grantedthat wage labour is hardly differentfrom slavery.

it's different only becauseit's temporary, and then you can be free. one of the ways you can be freeis by owning your own plant. that was not an exotic view - that was abraham lincoln's view. in fact it was a principleof the republican party in the late 19th century. it's taken a lot of effort to drivethose ideas out of people's heads, but they're still thereand they are very relevant. it was the greek philosopher platowho said the ratio of earnings

between highest and lowest paidemployee in any organisation should beno more than 6:1. in 1923 banker j.p. morgan declaredno more that 20:1 was optimum. yet today's salary difference between top and bottom earnersin global corporations can be higher than500 or a 1,000:1. when you are upin the range of 500:1 inequality the rich and the poorbecome almost different species

- no longer membersof the same community. commonality of interestis lost, and so it's difficultto form community and to have goodfriendly relationships across class differencesthat are that large. when the publicdo vent their outrage at inappropriate earnings,the common defense is to move the debateto the psychological realm and quote mercurial britisheconomist herbert spencer.

he coined the phrase'survival of the fittest' and his words are now usedto justify excess. competition in businessis a good thing, but the playing fieldmust be level. monopolists have too much because the systemthey game is rigged. under the currenteconomic set-up the fitness of the vast majorityof the world's population is irrelevant.

those that are made to payfor this crisis are not those that caused it. but those who caused it- for survival - will no doubt try to marginalisethis film as socialist or even marxist. i'm a capitalist.i'm a business person. i believe in the basic principles. that's whyi'm completely appalled by seeing theseprinciples destroyed

by monarchs, monopolists, who have totally destroyedthe system from within, on wall street, and this is completelyunacceptable. i'm a capitalist.i think capitalism can do it. it's not a questionof getting rid of capitalism. it's a question of getting ridof this terrible form of capitalism. capitalism, more broadly understoodas market economy,

not only has a future, i can't seethe future of the world without it. but the question is:what kind of capitalism? what kind of market economy? a system of reformed capitalismbuilt on independent money, a tax system basedon consumption, not income, and employee-owned businesses would begin to build an economy that's not dependent on constantgrowth to service its debt. we've endured the so-called‘free market' for centuries.

but far from being free it's led us to destroy natureand each other in a vain attempt to progress. it's absolutely ludicrousto suggest that somehow there's a scientificallydefined boundary of the market that we should never change. and of course that is whatthe free market economists want you to believe. because once they convinceyou of that, and claim that

- on top of that they claimthat they have the truth, because theyare phd's in economics - then they can tell youwhatever they want and then you'll haveto accept it. but that's wherewe have to take these guys on. politics is about drawingthe boundary of the market. i mean,when you think about it, a lot of things have beentaken out of the market over the lasttwo, three centuries.

two, three centuries agoyou could... buy and sellhuman beings, child labour, a lot of things that you didn'timagine you could buy and sell today. so, i mean, over time we havere-drawn this boundary and there is nothing wrong withre-drawing the boundary again. things that were consideredabsolutely reasonable in the 1850's like selling any chemicalon the street corner and telling you that it'sa pharmaceutical drug

that maybe good for you, things like that, that wereabsolutely commonplace then are now seriouscriminal offences. the same thing will be true ofactive money management in a 100 years. the breakdown we sawin the great depression and witnessed againat the beginning of the 21st century occurred because- in the name of growth - much was taken out of the systemby those who contribute very little.

multinational corporatesand banks will always want to growwithout having to compensate those people who actuallydo the work to produce the surplus. in the past every time too much was takenby those who contributed little people rose up to haltthe violent practices enacted by a tangible enemy. today the question is:with such a formless enemy pervading every element of oureconomic and democratic process,

can it be done again? of course it can be done again.look it's a cycle, i mean... we're not debt peons,we may be rats running around a little wheelin somebody's big cage somewhere. the finance rises,finance rises, finance becomes organised, you make a lot of moneyin banking, it's easy to go outand buy politicians, but the essence of democracy,the essence of american democracy

is this repeated confrontation,a repeated showdown, and in the 1830's andrew jackson beatthe second bank in the u.s., in the early 1900's teddy roosevelt beat j.p. morganand johnny rockefeller, in the 1930'sfranklin delano roosevelt, fdr, beat everyone from wall street. and now we have to do it again. the one single thingthat makes me optimistic,

rather than cynical, pessimistic, is my students. first, i do not see the desire to goto wall street amongst them, i see the opposite. second, i see a disdain amongst themfor people who are motivated... not just they don't want money, i see a disdain amongst them

for people whodo just want money. the crisis we face todayare created by humans and what is created by humanscan be changed by humans. so we are all capableof transforming our world. revolutions are philosophical. getting organised and preventing theculprits camouflaging the real problem means it's possible to embarkon a bloodless revolution against the violent organisationsand barbaric leaders who've trashed the economy.

central banking,rigged capitalism, land speculation,income tax and neo-classical economicshave corporatised democracy, stunted progress, pervertedthe course of human destiny and compromisedthe future of this planet. if these issues aren't addressed then the next implosionwill be on a scale unimagined. whatever the propaganda: at the beginningof the 21st century,

central banks'unregulated cheap money pumped up land values which created anunsustainable asset bubble in a world that once againoperates a rigged tax system that enrichesentrenched privilege. neo-classical economics haveruined life for the bottom billions, tempted everyone intointergenerational conflict and created massive sufferingthat has no limits. human beingsgo mad in crowds,

and come to their sensesslowly and individually. history is litteredwith examples of people who threw themselvesoff the yoke of oppression to adopt radical change, only to end upwith popular new rulers that maintained the status quo. to really understand something is to be liberated from it. dedicating oneselfto a great cause,

taking responsibilityand gaining self-knowledge is the essenceof being human. a predatory capitalist'struest enemy and humanity's greatest ally is the self-educated individual,who has read, understood, delays their gratification and walks aroundwith their eyes wide open. an invasion of armiescan be resisted, but not an idea

whose time has come. victor hugo


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welcome to the consumer financial protectionbureau's public meeting of its consumer advisory board, or the cab, as we like to call it,which is taking place at constitution center in washington, d.c. today's public meetingwill gather feedback about credit reporting and the consumer experience. my name is zixtamartinez. i am the associate director for external affairs at the cfpb. the cfpb's mission is to help consumer financemarkets work by making rules more effective, by consistently and fairly enforcing thoserules, and by empowering consumers to take more control over their economic lives. as many of you know, the dodd-frank wall streetreform and consumer protection act, which

created the cfpb, also provided for the establishmentof the cab. the cab is informed with the mission of providing advice and consultation withthe cfpb in the exercise of its functions, and they provide information on emerging practicesin the consumer financial products or services industry, including regional trends, concerns,and other information. today's public cab meeting is in support of that mission. let me just spend a few moments telling youabout what you can expect at today's public meeting. first, you will hear remarks fromthe cfpb's director, richard cordray, after which the cab's chair, jose quinonez, alongwith the cfpb's general counsel, meredith fuchs, will facilitate a discussion amongcab members and a panel of invited guest industry

and community experts, who will examine consumerexperience with credit reporting. they will highlight key credit reporting trends andidentify areas for improving the consumer experience with credit reporting and creditagencies. following the panel discussion, there willbe an opportunity to hear from audience participants. as a reminder, the views of the cab and theviews of the guest panelists are greatly appreciated; however, they do not represent the view ofthe cab�of the cfpb. sorry about that. today's public meeting is being livestreamedat consumerfinance.gov, and you can follow cfpb on twitter and facebook. so let's get started with an introductionof the cab members and cfpb staff. i would

invite cab members and staff to please raiseyour hand as i call out your name. the chair is jose quinonez. jose, will you raise yourhand? [laughter.] he is the executive director of mission assetfund in san francisco, california. the vice chair is bill bynum. bill is theceo of hope enterprise corp in jackson, mississippi. gary acosta. gary acosta is the ceo and co-founderof the national association of hispanic real estate professionals in san diego, california. jo ann barefoot. jo ann is a co-chair of treliantrisk advisors in washington, d.c. maeve brown. maeve is the executive directorof housing and economic rights advocates in

oakland, california. steve carlson. steve is the former head ofmarketing and business development at intuit.com, for mint.com, in mountain view, california. laura castro de cortes. laura is the presidentof latino banking solutions in omaha, nebraska. elizabeth costle. elizabeth is the directorfor consumer and state affairs at the aarp public policy institute in washington, d.c. prentiss cox. prentiss is an associate professorof law at the university of minnesota in minneapolis, minnesota. patty hasson. patty is the president of clarifiin philadelphia, pennsylvania.

patricia garcia duarte. patricia is the presidentand ceo of neighborhood housing services of phoenix in arizona. adam levitin. adam is a professor of law atgeorgetown law center in washington, d.c. james mccarthy. jim is the president and ceoof the miami valley fair housing center in dayton, ohio. william nelson. william is the associate directorfor military programs at the university of north georgia. dory rand. dory is the president of woodstockinstitute in chicago, illinois. the honorable annette rizzo. judge rizzo isa judge at the first judicial district of

pennsylvania in philadelphia. ellen seidman. ellen is a senior fellow atthe urban institute in washington, d.c. josh silverman. josh is president for u.s.consumer services at american express in new york. robert stoll. bob is the founder of stollberne llc in portland, oregon. jane thompson. jane is the ceo and founderof jane j. thompson financial services llc in chicago, illinois. and jonathan zinman. jonathan is a professorof economics at dartmouth college in hanover, new hampshire.

we also have with us delicia hand, cfpb staffdirector for the cab; meredith fuchs, general counsel for cfpb; corey stone, assistant directorfor credit and deposit markets. i think we got everyone. i am now pleased to introduce richard cordray.prior to his current role as the cfpb's director, he led the cfpb's enforcement office. beforethat, he served on the front lines of consumer protection as ohio's attorney general. inthis role, he recovered more than $2 billion for ohio's retirees, investors, and businessowners, and took major steps to help protect its consumers from fraudulent foreclosuresand financial predators. before serving as ag, he also served as an ohio state representative,ohio treasurer, and franklin county treasurer.

director cordray? thank you. thank you for joining us as wemeet with our consumer advisory board, whom you just met. we all look forward to our dialoguewith our cab members. it's been very valuable to us for them to share their perspective,their expertise, and their actual experience on the ground. we are all here because wecare deeply about how people are being treated in the consumer financial marketplace. i will be focusing today's remarks on oneparticular component of this marketplace, which is the credit reporting industry. everyconsumer who seeks to make use of credit to help manage his or her financial affairs isaffected by this industry. for whether they

are aware of it or not, people's ability toaccess credit and how much they pay for credit is typically governed by what is containedin their credit profiles. credit reports and scores can determine theterms of people's mortgages, whether they qualify for auto loans, or if they are eligiblefor different credit cards. a potential employer may look at a consumer's credit report asa factor in making a hiring decision, or a landlord may review it before deciding whetherto approve a potential renter. in short, credit reports and the scores derived from them playa fundamental role in determining whether and how each of us will be able to take advantageof the opportunities that credit provides to shape our futures.

most americans have a credit file. in fact,each of the three biggest credit reporting companies maintains files on over 200 millionconsumers. they compile consumer credit profiles based on information supplied by thousandsof providers known as "data furnishers." using information from the furnishers, credit reportingcompanies track people's payment records and other aspects of their credit history. thecompanies then use all of this data to compile scores that assess the risks lenders facewhen deciding whether to extend credit to a given consumer. consumers with high creditscores generally pose lower risk and therefore get approved for loans and on better terms. this financial scorekeeping exerts a tremendousand growing influence over consumers' lives.

the amount of data collected and exchangedin the credit reporting industry is astounding. each year, approximately 36 billion updatesare made to consumer credit files at the three largest credit reporting companies alone.assuring that such personal financial information is updated timely and accurately and thatit is maintained securely is a critical responsibility. when i addressed this group a year ago, iexpressed concern that the credit reporting industry is a market in which consumers canbecome largely incidental to a business relationship between others. that is because consumershave no real say in decisions made about their credit report in the first instance. whenconsumers cannot vote with their feet by choosing to take their business elsewhere, their influenceis inevitably limited. this can be very frustrating

to the consumers whose information is at stake,since this industry can have such a profound influence on their lives. indeed, we have heard from many people whoare at their wit's end. one woman said she was struggling to obtain copies of her creditreport and felt like she was at, quote, a dead end. consumers should never be made tofeel that way in the marketplace. our job at the consumer bureau is to stand on theirside and ensure that the industry deals with consumers in a fair and transparent manner.so let me begin by discussing the progress we are making to help ensure that people arebeing treated fairly in the credit reporting market. i will also touch on where we thinkmore could be done, and we look forward to

hearing your thoughts. too often, consumers feel like they are gettingthe runaround. if they cannot get the credit reporting companies to listen, they cannotget problems resolved. to enhance consumers' voice in this process, we began acceptingconsumer complaints on these issues in october 2012. since then, we have handled approximately31,000 credit reporting complaints. nearly three-quarters of these complaints have beenabout the accuracy and completeness of credit reports. consumers report that key information is wrongor missing from their report and that they have trouble getting errors corrected. maybea debt has been misreported or maybe some

of the consumer's personal information iswrong. we have even heard about credit reporting companies and data furnishers refusing tochange information that identifies consumers as deceased when, as the consumers themselvesare frustrated to attest, they are very much alive. other consumers complained about being unableto get a copy of their report or about having problems with how a credit reporting companyinvestigated a dispute. some reported that an investigation took too long or that theycould not get proper help over the phone. these are not minor matters for people. whenconsumers have unresolved problems with their credit reports, it can prevent them from qualifyingfor a job or can block them from securing

a rental home, a mortgage, or a car loan.in addition to these very tangible troubles, these problems generate significant frustrationand stress, and they reinforce a basic distrust in the market. when a consumer complaint is submitted tothe bureau, we forward it to the appropriate company and work to get a response from themon a relatively fast time frame. complaints are listed in our consumer complaint databasewhen the company responds to the complaint confirming a relationship with the consumeror after the company has had the complaint for 15 calendar days, whichever comes first.we make the database available to the public online so that anyone can see what complaintsare coming in and analyze that information.

today, we are releasing a snapshot of theconsumer credit reporting complaints that we have received. it shows that companiesare already responding to over 90 percent of complaints made about them. we are helpingconsumers to be heard and to get their issues addressed. another way we are seeking to make creditreporting fairer for consumers is by exercising our supervisory authority over the largercredit reporting companies and many of their largest furnishers. our examination teamsensure that they are complying with the consumer financial laws. we now oversee companies thataccount for about 90 percent of the annual receipts in this market.this oversight allows us to step behind the

curtain of these companies and their internalprocesses. we then can find specific pain points for consumers, identify problem areas,and work directly to improve their responsiveness to consumer problems. our supervisory authorityextends to the largest financial institutions and collections agencies, which provide amajority of the credit reporting companies' trade lines and collection items. we have also identified major process changesthat were needed. when consumers find a problem with their credit report that they want todispute and get corrected, they often send along copies of the relevant documents tosupport their claim. anyone would naturally assume that this information will be sharedbetween the credit reporting company and the

furnisher to respond appropriately in addressingthe dispute. this, however, was not how matters were being handled. the three largest nationwide credit reportingcompanies use an established system, which is known as "e-oscar," to communicate consumerdisputes to furnishers. in december of 2012, we reported that when credit reporting companiesforwarded disputes, they did not send attachments, such as account statements, supplied by consumers.instead, they simply reduced everything submitted by the consumer to a three-digit code andoccasionally a few words that described the dispute. without any of the crucial supportinginformation from the consumer, disputed claims were often denied because there was nothingto dictate any change in the outcome.

this is completely unacceptable. consumersare often in the best position to explain why a particular account or item in a fileis inaccurate. they should have a full chance to explain their disputes to furnishers, butthey lose this opportunity when the credit reporting companies do not forward consumer-supplieddocuments. last fall, we announced that the three majorcredit reporting companies had agreed to upgrade the e-oscar system to correct these problems.at first, they made the necessary changes so that they could send furnishers any relevantdocuments that consumers either mailed or faxed to them. obviously, that was only apartial fix, though an important step forward. but today, we are pleased to update you withfurther enhancements to the e-oscar system.

now consumers can upload documents wheneverthey file a credit dispute online, and furnishers will have direct access to those documents. these changes will make it easier and moreconvenient for consumers to support their claims. they will also make it more feasiblefor companies to investigate fully and address the actual details in context. the resultshould be more disputes being resolved correctly, leading to credit reports that more accuratelyreflect the current facts about consumers' credit histories. moreover, in september 2013, we put furnisherson notice that they are responsible for following the law by investigating consumer disputes,correcting inaccurate information, and sharing

the corrected information with the creditreporting companies. we expressly informed furnishers that they are to have reasonablesystems and technology in place to receive and process notices of disputes and informationabout disputes, including any relevant documentation that is forwarded to them by the credit reportingcompanies. when consumers know they have a better chanceof having their disputes resolved, they are likely to be more proactive in tackling problemswith their credit reports. we want to see even more of that. in order for consumersto know to dispute items in their credit reports, they need to be checking their reports regularlyenough to notice any mistakes. yet fewer than one in five americans check their credit reportsin any given year. we need to do more to see

that everyone understands the importance ofdoing so. consumers often learn the importance of their credit standing when it is too late,after a credit application is denied or after identity theft has had time to cause extensivedamage. sometimes they fail to see the importance of their credit standing even after it hasaffected them in a material way, such as being rejected for a job or charged a higher pricefor a loan. that is why we are focused on empowering consumersto take more control of their financial lives by providing consumers with information tohelp them know what to do when they encounter a problem or to avoid problems in the firstplace. in the area of credit reporting, we are working to make this information availableto consumers through multiple channels. ask

cfpb is our interactive online tool that helpsconsumers find unbiased, authoritative answers to their financial questions accessibly statedin plain language. two of the most viewed questions are "where can i get my credit score?"and "how do i dispute an error on my credit report?" we also offer a range of short, plain-languagepaper guides that can be downloaded and distributed for free and also can be ordered in bulk bynonprofit and government organizations. two of our most popular paper guides are "checkyour credit report" and "pay attention to your credit." we have designed these resourcesto help people take control of their money. nevertheless, we remain keenly aware thatinformation about credit standing needs to

be made more salient for consumers. so today, i am also pleased to announce theconsumer bureau's strong support for a major initiative in the credit card industry. thisinitiative will make credit scoring information more easily and regularly available to creditcard customers at no cost. recently, several issuers, including discover who is here withus today, have introduced programs that promise to expand dramatically the number of consumerswho are more routinely acquainted with their credit information. the programs provide customers,directly and at no cost, with the same credit scores these issuers obtain in their normalcourse of business, along with educational materials to help them understand the creditscore.

although credit scores provide just a partialpicture of one's finances, they could raise awareness of credit issues and prompt busyamericans to review their credit standing. if scores are lower than expected or if theychange over time, more consumers may take the initiative to request their credit reports.this will allow them to address concerns, dispute errors or fraud-related entries, andimprove negative aspects of their credit usage. so we consider this initiative to be a "bestpractice" in the industry. making this information available throughexisting channels, such as including credit scores with other online account informationand on monthly statements, is likely to yield positive returns that are worth the effort.customers who monitor and manage their credit

standing should, on average, be less likelyto become delinquent or to default, and given that more than two-thirds of americans haveat least one credit card, having their credit score made available through their creditcard issuer or through other creditor statements could broadly improve consumer well-being. with these purposes in mind, i recently sentletters and followed up with phone calls to the ceos of the nation's top credit card companiesstrongly encouraging them to consider making credit scores and educational content freelyavailable to their customers on a regular basis. i believe this initiative will benefitboth providers and consumers by making people more capable of protecting themselves, moreable to benefit by the opportunities that

credit can create, and ultimately more productivemembers of our economy. indeed, i see no reason why this approach should not be replicatedwith customers across other product lines as well, and some of the ceos indicated thatthey are moving in that direction. this is just one example of how we can findways to work together with financial providers to strengthen financial education effortsacross this country. similarly, recent upgrades have been made to annualcreditreport.com,which is the only website where consumers can get their free annual credit reports,as the law requires. we contributed to these upgrades, which have resulted in better educationalcontent for the millions of americans who visit that website each year. the upgradesinclude over 40 web links to helpful content

about credit reporting developed by the consumerbureau and the federal trade commission. with all of the examples i have discussedhere today, from e-oscar upgrades to financial education about credit standing, we can seethe prospect of significant improvements for consumers trying to navigate the complexitiesof the credit reporting market, but more needs to be done to prevent unnecessary frustrationand obstacles that consumers frequently encounter. we continue to observe problems with thosethat provide information to the credit reporting companies. some furnishers are taking shortcutsto avoid undertaking appropriate investigations of consumer disputes. for example, a consumermay find an error on the credit report and file a dispute about an incorrect debt ora credit card that was never opened. in response,

the furnisher may simply delete that accountfrom the information it passes along to the credit reporting company. this practice can be detrimental because itdeprives consumers of an important protection. not only do investigations determine the accuracyof a particular consumer's dispute, but they also help furnishers uncover and correct broaderproblems within the systems they use to provide information to the credit reporting companies.when a furnisher learns more about these types of problems, it benefits not only the consumerwho submitted the dispute but also all other similarly situated consumers who did not.a furnisher that does not actually investigate disputes is cutting corners and will haveless effective checks on the accuracy of its

information. in addition, without an investigation thatcorrectly resolves the dispute, consumers are left with less assurance that the inaccurateinformation will not reappear later on. they also may not get the intended benefit of havingthe credit reporting company notify those who have already received the report thatthe inaccurate information has been identified and corrected. so today, we are issuing a supervision bulletinputting furnishers on notice that taking a shortcut by simply deleting a line in a creditreport does not generally constitute a reasonable investigation of a consumer dispute that isenough to satisfy their obligations under

the law. we will continue to use our supervisory authorityto require responsible behavior in the credit reporting market, and we will also use ourenforcement authority where appropriate. we know that fixing just one error on a creditreport could save people thousands of dollars in the long run by increasing their creditscore and thereby helping them secure a mortgage or a credit card when they might otherwisehave been denied or charged a higher rate. for all of these reasons, we believe thatconsumers must have their voices heard. everyone deserves to be treated fairly. at the consumer bureau, we are dedicated tofostering a marketplace for financial products

and services where sensible practices benefitboth industry and consumers alike. as the american economy continues on its path torecovery, we need to have confidence that consumers enjoy the full benefits of creditreports that are accurate and reliable. consumers bear their own share of responsibility tomonitor and manage their credit standing. as we have discussed, however, there are somesteps that can be taken to put them in a better position to succeed in protecting themselves. when consumers do take the initiative to managetheir credit reports, they also deserve to have their disputes investigated in a meaningfulway and to have their reports corrected where that result is justified on the facts. inthe end, we can all agree that people who

apply for financial products should be evaluatedon the basis of their true credit history, reflecting how they have actually managedtheir financial affairs. but we can also appreciate that it is nota simple matter to accomplish this shared goal in a diverse and vibrant free-marketeconomy driven every day by the aggregate activity of more than 300 million americans.that makes the credit reporting industry a fitting topic for the expertise and experienceof our cab members, and we appreciate all of you joining us here today to engage inwhat i am sure will be a most robust conversation. thank you. [applause.]

thank you, director cordray. next, cab chair jose quinonez and cfpb generalcounsel meredith fuchs will lead a panel discussion about credit reporting and the consumer experience.i would ask our guest panelists to please take their seats. i have already introducedjose quinonez, so let me just share a few words about meredith fuchs. she joined thecfpb in january 2011 and currently serves as the bureau's general counsel. she previouslyserved as cfpb's chief of staff as well as principal deputy general counsel. she joinedthe cfpb from the u.s. house of representatives where she served as chief investigative councilto the committee on energy and commerce. jose and meredith, you have the floor.

thank you, zixta. welcome, everyone. you havejust heard from director cordray, and you have heard him speak about the importanceof accurate credit reporting and helping consumers out of the dead-end situations by making thecredit reporting market fairer through supervision and oversight. building on that foundation, cab chair quinonezand i are about to moderate a discussion about the evolution of the consumer experience withcredit reporting. we are going to highlight key trends in consumer complaints and identifyareas for improving the consumer's experience with credit reporting. this discussion isgoing to include comments from our invited guest panelists, who i am going to introducein a moment, and from members of our consumer

advisory board, as well as some cfpb staff. so let me begin by introducing our invitedguests. with us is�and maybe you could each just raise your hand, so folks know when iintroduce you�is ed mierzwinski, who is the consumer program director and senior fellowat the u.s. public interest research group. we have stuart pratt, who is the presidentand ceo of the consumer data industry association; leonard bennett, who is with consumer litigationassociates; brian hughes, who is the senior vice president of cardmember marketing atdiscover financial services; and in addition, we have corey stone, who is the assistantdirector for deposits, cash, collections, and reporting markets at cfpb.

jose, why don't you get us started today. well, thank you for that. i think we definitelywill have a robust conversation, so let's just get to it. i wanted to sort of just invite our guestpanelists to start us off with some introductory remarks, and let's start with stuart. well, chairman quinonez, members of the consumeradvisory board, and the staff of the cfpb, thanks for the invitation to join your dialoguetoday. it is an important dialogue. it is one that makes sense to us. cdia is a tradeassociation. we represent a large community of data companies that help american businessesmanage risk, and amongst those companies are

the three nationwide credit bureaus, whichare really the subject of today's discussion. credit reporting here in the united statesis still the premier system globally. nowhere else in the world do you have a system withsuch a large amount of data that is used for risk management. nowhere else in the worlddo we have more consumers who have the opportunity to access credit than here in the united states,and in fact, an indication of that is cdia will soon host a delegation from indonesia,where they will learn a little bit more about u.s. credit reporting systems, how they'rebuilt, why they are built the way that they are built, and how they can expand their ownconsumer economy. but today's conversation isn't about the macroeconomicsof credit reporting, but today's conversation

is about us as consumers. it's an importantconversation. some do suggest that our relationship is primarily a credit bureau relationshipwith lenders, but i would suggest that that is just not as true as it once was, and infact, it is fundamentally not the way cdia's members view the relationship they want tohave with consumers. we want a market-based relationship with consumers that's successful.there are products and services that connect consumers today with their credit reports,help them prevent identity theft, help them to monitor their credit reports. they getaccess to their credit scores, and these are tremendously successful products that contributeto credit report literacy and, broadly, financial literacy.

we also have a relationship that is establishedby law, and i think director cordray outlined some of the requirements under law, and ourmembers are committed to having that relationship work equally successfully. it is importantfor each one of us to have confidence when we call a credit bureau that the dispute willbe processed successfully, and it's a partnered relationship. credit reporting is really anecosystem, and i applaud the cfpb for their 2012 white paper on the ecosystem of nationwidecredit reporting. there are various parties in this conversation. there are credit bureaus.there are more than 10,000 data furnishers furnishing 3 billion updates a month intothis system. there are consumers, and we as consumers have opportunities to connect withcredit bureaus as well.

so we look forward to this dialogue. we'repleased to have it, and again, chairman quinonez, thanks for the invitation. we certainly appreciateit. thank you for that. so let's make the introductionsbrief, and then�so that way, we can have some time for the actual questions, so thatwe'll get to it. so just briefly introduce yourself. good morning. my name is brian hughes withdiscover, svp of cardmember marketing, and i'd also like to say thank you, chairman cordrayand members of the advisory board, for having me in today's discussion. it's an importanttopic to discover, to consumers, and to the financial industry. we are one of america'slargest issuers of credit cards, third largest

provider of private student loans, and homelines and personal loans as well, and the accuracy of consumer information is very importantfor us to satisfy the needs of regulators, consumers, and our shareholders. we work veryhard in that regard to make sure that the information we provide to the credit bureausis accurate and recently began providing the free fico scores to our cardmembers on a monthlybasis. this makes it easy and convenient for our cardholders to check their credit scoreon a monthly basis and then to seek more information if they need it, and we've seen a great responsefrom our consumers to this service, overwhelmingly positive, and i know our chairman david nelmswas very pleased, director cordray, at your outreach and your phone call and your letter,and we're very proud of this service.

so i look forward to this morning's discussionand to your questions. great. thank you. ed? thank you, jose, and i'll try to be brief,but the fair credit reporting act was enacted in 1970. i've been fighting the credit reportingwars since 1989. congress did pass major reforms in 1996 and then again in 2003, but i thinkthe most significant reform for consumers was the enactment of the dodd-frank act thatcreated the cfpb and gave it the tools needed to finally bring these powerful gatekeepersinto a controlled environment. so i'm looking forward to the discussion today. and i'll disagree with stuart on one point.he expects me to disagree on more than one

later on, and i will, but� consumer do not have the same relationshipwith credit bureaus that they do with other businesses. you can choose your bank or creditunion. you can choose where you buy a car. the credit bureaus sell information aboutyou, and you have no control over that. it's a different market, and it needs differentrules. thank you. good morning. i expect i will throughout thislook the most out of place and most uneasy. i am not a government relations person. self-described,although stuart wouldn't probably agree, but i would see myself as an emergency room physicianor a mash unit surgeon. the thousands of consumers who i have represented in my 16-some years,helping them in this unique field, when they

believe they are failed, they come to us.we are the ones that review the actual documents we receive from the credit reporting agenciesor the consumer complaints that come in through the cfpb. my firm does almost exclusively fair creditreporting litigation. we don't do credit repair. we don't charge consumers when we try to helpthem fix a dispute, and in that context later on, if i haven't worn out my welcome, i willsound more as a doomsayer. i don't believe that the system of dispute and investigationsfor consumers has improved. it's gotten markedly worse. with that said, i have had an opportunityto speak before congress several times, including

with facta on behalf of the national associationof consumer advocates. i'm on the board. i've spoken and worked with the federal trade commission,and i can say publicly i do not know of any instances in which in the history of thisstatute as dramatic improvement in consumer empowerment has occurred than under the cfpb'swatch. the changes that the director just suggested are not insubstantial. the changesto e-oscar discovers to be greatly commended for offering credit cards. these are not cosmeticfrom our side, from where we see it. these are very significant improvements, so thanksyou. thank you. appreciate you being here. well, let's get to it. i'm going to directthe first question to ed and stuart, just

to see if we can get some agreement here atsome point, and then i also want to be inviting some of the cab members to join in the conversation.so the first question is really about how have you seen credit reports being used inhiring for employment, and who should be ensuring the businesses that actually use the creditreports for hiring? how should be ensuring that they use the reports following the law?so ed and then stuart. thank you, jose. the original 1970 act said you could use creditreports for credit insurance, employment, or other legitimate business needs. in 1996,congress recognized that their use for employment was a pretty serious use in the tough jobmarket that we had in the 1990s, and so congress

gave applicants and employees greater consumerrights when their report was going to be used for a negative purpose. but since the 2008collapse of the economy and the many losses of jobs, i think their use for employmenthas become even a more stark problem in the marketplace. you shouldn't be denied a jobbecause of a mistake on your credit report. also, you shouldn't be denied a job becauseyour credit score might be low, because you paid your bills late, because you were laidoff, because wall street wrecked the economy. and why do i say that? well, because the creditbureaus themselves have testified in state legislatures that there is no correlationbetween a credit report and how good a job somebody will do.

now, the federal trade commission has alsolooked at another problem, which is that there is kind of a bottom feeder group of companiesthat try to avoid being regulated under the act, employment check companies that use creditreports and credit report-like information to make decisions about people to prescreenthem against getting jobs, but i think it's important that the cfpb continue to investigatethe accuracy of credit reports and the use of credit reports for job purposes. again,credit bureaus are no longer simply gatekeepers for financial opportunity. they are gatekeepersfor employment opportunity, and it needs to be better regulated. great. stuart?

so, first of all, i agree with ed that thelaw in 1970 did permit the use of credit reports for employment, so i suppose that's the pointof agreement we'll work on here. and i would also agree that credit reportsshould be used fairly, correctly, and within the scope of the law. so i think we have absoluteagreement on that as well. so just a couple of quick thoughts. the societyfor human resources management reached out to their community of human resources professionalsand asked them the question how and when do you use credit reports, and they came backand made very clear, they used them in a very select, very limited areas of employment.so in other words, while sometimes folks look at the macro number and they say, "wow! lookat all the companies that are using the credit

report," they are really using it in veryselect purposes for very select job categorizations. a good example in the data industry wouldbe those folks who work in the data center. those folks who have access to sensitive personalinformation, those folks who could walk out with a hard drive with sensitive personalinformation and commit identity theft are folks who generally might be subjected toa more robust review of their background credentials, which might include a credit report. however, we pulled out members who are backgroundscreening companies, and they on average provide a credit report in only 5 percent of all ofthe product they issue in the marketplace, which i think is indicative of the limiteduse and the careful use.

also, society for human resources managementconfirms that 80 percent of their respondents to their survey indicated that they certainlyare hiring individuals where a credit report shows financial distress. so i think the realquestion is making sure there's a difference between, and i think ed is right. there isa difference between financial distress that resulted from, for example, the financialcrisis and patterns of behavior which might be more indicative of an individual who maybe less reliable than somebody else. i think they are being used responsibly. we want themto be used responsibly, and if there's more dialogue around this, we would welcome thatopportunity to have that dialogue. well, thank you for that.

i wanted to bring in one of the cab membersinto the conversation, just to kind of get a feel for what we are seeing on the ground.gary, i know you had some thoughts on this. i want to see if you can join in the conversation. sure, jose. well, one of the things that ithink is important for maybe the public to understand and i think everybody in generalis that there is a difference between credit reports and credit scores, and that thoseservices are provided by two separate companies, generally. while i think the number that wasexpressed by the director of 200 million people having credit reports, a large percentageof those folks don't have credit scores. so not having a credit score is equivalent toreally not having a credit report from the

perspective of creditors and perhaps evenemployers or some of the other folks that are using these services. so i think one of the challenges that we seein the marketplace right now is perhaps a lack of competition. there are only a handfulof providers on the credit scoring space, and credit scores are embedded in aus systemsand have a profound effect on people's ability to acquire mortgages and other services likethat. and i think that one of the things that thebureau has articulated earlier was a desire to stimulate competition in the marketplaceand innovation, and i think this is definitely a space where we can benefit from that.

great. thank you for that. dory, i know you have some experience in thismatter as well. what are you seeing on the ground? i want to emphasize what ed mentioned. i thinkit's extremely important that people understand that there is no research documenting a legitimateconnection between credit histories and credit scores and ability to do specific jobs. thisis not a proper use of credit histories and credit scores, and the last time i heard,about 60 percent of employers were using these credit scores and credit histories in makinghiring decisions, and i think stuart really underemphasized the extent to which this happens.

and given the high levels of unemploymentthat we have�in the chicago region, it is above the national average, and we know incommunities of color that levels of unemployment are even higher. use of credit histories andscores to screen out people who desperately need jobs is really a huge problem and exacerbatingthe existing income and wealth gap. so we're very concerned about this, and even thoughstates like illinois have passed laws that restrict the use of credit histories for thispurpose to extent, there are a lot of loopholes in the law, and really, we'd rather see somethingat the federal level that really drastically restricts the use of credit histories forthis purpose. thank you. thanks. i am going to jump in on one of thedisputes that was raised a little bit earlier.

as director cordray mentioned, consumers don'thave the opportunity to vote with their feet in this area. stuart, you mentioned that consumers are partof the ecosystem of how this whole industry works, and yet, ed, you reaffirmed that consumershave no choice here. i wonder if each of you could comment a little bit on how the consumerexperience in credit reporting has changed or improved, and what more can be done toimprove that experience today? stuart, why don't you start. actually, i am going to go through some thoughtsagain that, director cordray, you spoke to in your opening speech, and thank you, bythe way, for acknowledging some of the work

that's been done. one of the most important things we can doin this dialogue and be on the borders of this dialogue is decide how can we get moreconsumers connected with their credit reports. how can we get more consumers to come to annualcreditreport.comand get the free report that they are entitled to under law? and the reason i say that is because, of course,more eyeballs on the data ensures that that data is just right, and that's elementallyimportant for credit reporting. it's important for each of us as consumers. it ensures thata report that is going to be used in an employment context, lawfully, appropriately, correctly,responsibly, that it works that way.

so for us, for example, we have, as directorcordray mentioned�we have streamlined the language of annualcreditreport.com. that wasan important step forward, and it wasn't done in the silo of just company folks reviewingsome language and making some adjustments. we went to several major universities in theunited states. we had laboratory tests with consumers of various ages, urban-centered,rural, to make sure that the new design was effective in terms of how consumers wouldbe able to exercise their right, because we want them to come to that website and thenbe effective in using it. we have also, as director cordray mentioned�wehave put much, much more information, financial literacy-focused information on the website.and by the way, director cordray, i agree

with you. one of the best things about thewebsite is the fact that it links consistently back to the cfpb site, so that consumers canget access to the information that is informed by your thinking at the cfpb. by the way, one of the interesting statistics,whereas maybe 12 percent of consumers were looking at information on the website, wenow know that 25 percent of consumers�of the 21 million consumers who have come tothe website since it was upgraded, we know that 25 percent are looking at financial literacyinformation, and we think that's a good success story, and it's a good starting point. finally, we ran a psa campaign, financialcredit report literacy campaign, this past

year. we reached 167 million readers. we knowthat we have more work to do in that regard. that was a pilot test for us to get some ideaof how we might reach consumers and whether we were effective. we are sponsoring a symposium later this yearwith the credit builders alliance, a consumer advocacy group that actually is involved inensuring that small-dollar loans, urban-centered loans are being reported to credit bureausto thicken up credit bureau files, to make sure more consumers have a credit report that'sscorable. and we are going to ask those urban-centered lenders more about what are the impedimentsto various communities in terms of getting access to credit reports. so this is partof the beginning of a dialogue. we are encouraged

by that, but we think we have a better baselineto work from, and we think there's more to be done. ed, why don't you take a shot at this. well, thank you, meredith. the original 1970act required the credit bureaus to have reasonable procedures for maximum possible accuracy ofcredit reports. they simply do not, but as the internet grew and as the ability to marketto consumers grew, they started selling products to consumers because of their fallacies. theysaid, "your credit score could be bad. you better buy our credit score monitoring service.you could be a victim of identity theft. buy this service." instead of improving theirservices, they started selling consumers products

that they shouldn't have to pay for that shouldbe part of the work that the credit bureaus do anyway. there are a lot of reasons for this. untilthe cfpb, which has supervisory authority, the ability to look under the hood of thecredit bureaus, which the ftc never had, the cfpb has rulemaking and other tools on itsbehalf. that is going to make a big difference going forward, but i think the consumer experienceis that the credit bureaus don't answer the phone, and they don't help them. they simplyencourage them to buy overpriced products that don't stop identity theft and don't improvetheir credit score, and then when a consumer attorney, a top gun consumer attorney likelen bennett tries to help someone who has

a problem, the credit bureaus hide behinda firewall in chile, and they say that len bennett cannot get the information he needsbecause it belongs to some corporate affiliate in chile. len can tell more about that storyif he wants to. thank you. i want to get to some of our cabmembers, but before i do so, given what you've talked about, it's hard not to turn to brianhughes and ask him to talk a little bit about the experience discover has had with providingmonthly credit scores, making them available to consumers, and how what you have learnedabout how to draw consumers' attention to that, so they will actually check their scoreand use it to monitor their own situation. thank you. it has been a good experience providingthe free credit scores.

just an overview, really quick, what we didwas put the credit score on page 1 of the statement, so every discover customer cansee their credit score. they don't have to go somewhere to hunt it down. it's right there.there is a simple graphic next to it. it tells you if you are above or below the average,and it comes every month, right? so it's easy and it's convenient. we have information on our website that explainshow the score is calculated, and then for every customer, it gives the specific coupleof reasons as to why their credit score is what it is and what they can do to make itbetter, and that information is right on the website. it's specific to the customer.

and then we direct them to annualcreditreport.comif they want to get a free copy of their credit report. so we've seen very positive reaction,a lot of positive commentary from our customers calling in, going on social media. we've had600,000 visits to the website portion that explains more about the credit score, andwe have directed 30,000 customers to annualcreditreport.com, where they have been able to click throughon that link. so i think what we have seen from it is ifwe make credit information easier, more convenient, and more understandable, that we can get consumersto want to learn more about their credit and engagement in improving it. great. thank you. i am going to bring thisdiscussion up to our cab members a bit. steve

carlson, do you have thoughts on this topic? sure. i think over the last years, there'sbeen a pretty significant change in the consumer experience, at least on the up-front angle,and things that discover are doing, obviously. but if i took it back just a few years ago,if i was a consumer, i had just a couple options. option number one was i could go to annualcreditreport.com,but i would have to remember to go in once every 4 months, because i think you couldpull from each of the three bureaus, spread that out and then that way i am getting myfree access to monitor what's going on. and that's just very difficult and painful. the other option you had is you would go andyou would buy your report one time, and maybe

it's be $30 or $35, or you would enroll ina subscription service, which would be $15 a month to be monitoring and having access. fast forward. you have the programs that discoveris doing now. you also have a couple other programs that have launched that are reallyeasy for the consumer. credit sesame, credit karma, which i believe is partly owned bytransunion or there's a relationship there, these are services that in the case of creditkarma, about 20 million customers are enrolled in today. they give you access, in the caseof credit karma, to transunion, so just one bureau report, but they monitor it for you.it's very easy. you get a push notification on your phone. i don't work for them, by theway, but you do get a push notification on

your phone if anything is changing and ona monthly basis on your score. but they also help you understand what impacts your scorein a very easy, simple way. i think where the breakdown still occurs,at least from what i've seen, is on the dispute resolution side. so it is getting easier toknow what your score is. it is getting much easier to have that monitored for you, soyou really don't have to do a lot of work, but what happens if you do have a disputeresolution? i haven't seen as much innovation in that aspect. i also wanted to give patty a chance to commentabout this question about how we can get consumers to look at their credit score and use it tobenefit their financial position.

and i do concur. i think there are a lot ofgreat things happening in the marketplace that will allow consumers to get their score,but a simple solution would be to put it on the tax return, right? we all have to payour taxes. so if there was a box that you could check that would take you right to annualcreditreport.com,i think that's the best service there is, of even better yet, if they defaulted youinto it that you're paying your taxes, right, at that point, you would get our free annualcreditreport.com.that way, we could ensure that everyone in america who is paying their taxes would gettheir annualcreditreport.com. it might even be an incentive to pay your taxes. there you go. well, i think from our perspective,i think there is really no question that consumers

really understand the impact of credit scores.i mean, it really just takes one denial, somebody saying, "no, you can't do this," "no, youcan't get that apartment," "no, you can't get that loan to buy that car," "no, you can'tget the job," for them to understand that the credit report is such an important document. so i think from my perspective, the questionis about how can we get them to access and also to engage more in improving their credithistory. so there is the question about the consumer themselves. i wanted to kind of bringup the question, kind of following brian's comments about or your experiences in providingthe score to consumers. what sort of behavior or what sort of interventions, additionalinterventions can we provide, so that more

people can actually obtain copies of the creditreports? i actually wanted to start this discussionby bringing jonathan into this question. where are you, jonathan? i can't really see you.oh, there you are. i know you have done a lot of work around this field, and i wantto see if you can sort just give some of your thoughts from a behavioral standpoint, whatsort of ideas or suggestions can you bring to the table about how to get more peopleto access credit scores. yeah. so if i were to accept the objectivethat we want to get more people with their eyeballs on their credit reports, i wouldthink about the intersection of teachable moments and easy-on ramps, because we're notselling beer or smartphones here. we are trying

to get people to undertake an unpleasant task,and so that gets us thinking, certainly gets us thinking about tax time, because for mostof americans, that's the closest thing to an annual financial checkup that they have. so i would think�patty's ideas are interesting,but i would also think about partnerships with the tax preparation industry, since manypeople get their taxes prepared for them, and many people might be more likely to undertakethis unpleasant task if they had a bit of hand-holding through it, perhaps with theirtax preparer. so i would think about that. i would also think about piggybacking offof direct marketing that's done by lenders, either in direct partnership with lendersand their direct marketing and messaging or

by capturing or replicating some of the intelligencethat exists out there in the industry about when people are likely to be shopping forloans, and consequently, when the value prop of getting a better handle on your creditreport and credit score might actually resonate with people. having said that, i also think it's importantto step back and question where this objective fits in with the bigger picture. there aremany, many things that we might wish or think that consumers would benefit from paying moreattention to. we happen to be talking about credit reporting today, but if we were toreframe the question of, all right, we've got 10 minutes of tax time and we want toget consumers to do one thing that will improve

their financial condition, do we really thinkthat the highest return on investment from that 10 minutes is getting more knee-deepinto credit reporting? maybe. maybe not. maybe that 10 minutes is better spent encouragingconsumers to make a plan to pay down some expensive debt. so i do think it's importantto not just solve for this problem, but also figure out sort of where this problem fitswithin the overall big picture of how we might plan to tax consumer bandwidth in terms oftrying to help encourage folks to get their house in order. well, i must say you [audio break] beer. somaybe there is something we can connect credit scores with beer.

stuart, you had a thought about how to bringthe beer industry into this? yeah. just as we're thinking�well, i'm alwayshaving to talk about beer, but my children don't think my job is very exciting becausei don't represent the beer institute, which to them would be a much more exciting associationto work for. so in this case, i think just a couple ofthoughts about scores, big picture. first of all, we have a competitive credit scoringindustry in this country, and i think, gary, to your point, we want to encourage competitionin scoring and in credit reporting and the types of data that can be brought forward,giving more consumers access to traditional markets, and there's a lot of work that'sbeing done. i realize that's not central to

the topic today. but i would say that we mustpreserve that competitive market. if discover chooses to disclose a particular company'sbrand, we think other companies, other banks should be able to choose the partner thatthey think is most important for them. for example, vantagescore sponsors a surveyalong with the consumer federation of america to help inform our thinking about consumers'knowledge of scores. we think it's important for that competitive market to be part ofthe mix of this and for the cfpb, by the way, to continue to help educate consumers thatthere is no one score. there is no one place to go to find the single answer, that scoredisclosure is educational. that it really is key to make sure that the right informationgoes along with the score, and that ultimately,

consumers are pointed back to getting a report,so that they can see the underlying data, which will cut across a whole series of differentscores. but we think that a competitive marketplaceis important. director cordray, in your outreach to banks, it is not entirely clear that theyunderstand exactly what they are supposed to do, so perhaps some more dialogue aroundthat would be helpful, but we think that excellent providers in the marketplace should be giventhat same chance to compete, if you will, in terms of that bank marketplace where theymake decisions about what they might disclose in a voluntary initiative such as puttinga score on a billing statement, so . . . i do. i think that the assumption that isbeing made is that we have a single uniform

commodity, and the question is how do we putthat uniform commodity in front. and stuart, i think makes my point for me; that is, ifyou have limited consumer bandwidth and you are trying to focus on we want them to haveinformation. we have got one shot at getting it in front of them. you want it to be thescore that everybody uses. you want it to be the credit report that matches what discoverhas. one of the reasons i am very pleased withthe cfpb from the consumers i represent has received the cooperation of companies likediscover is that's the real score. discover doesn't determine whether to lower your limitbased on the vantagescore, which is a product created and not used by anyone of the institutionalcreditors by the credit reporting agencies.

the credit monitoring services are an issuetoo; credit karma, with all due respect. there are lots of credit monitoring products. thedifficulty that i have with annualcreditreport.com is that�the interface is fantastic and hasimproved, but then you leave annual credit report, and you are diverted to the creditreporting agencies, where they try to get you to make an online dispute, which it isunquestionable that there is zero human being involved at the reporting agencies if youmake your dispute online. it's the worst of the dispute options. they will try to marketyou scores and other products. on top of the distraction that you have from annualcreditreport.comis the pirate commercials and various other products that stuart's client experian sellsat freecreditreport.com. all of the reporting

agencies have their own credit monitoringservice. i will say that if there are some�myfico.com�westrongly recommend our clients to use my fico to avoid the arbitration limitations or theuse of vantagescore, but i do think the question is not simply how do you get information infront, because the assumption there is that you have an empty room, and you want to introduceinformation into the room. the more accurate analogy is you have a loud, boisterous roomwith lots of people screaming information at you, and how do you make the accurate score,like discover is doing, or the correct dispute system or the correct annualcreditreport.comlouder than all of this marketing noise? the credit reporting agencies just a coupleyears ago, the number has likely grown. a

quarter of the income from stuart's clients,the big three, comes from these direct-to-consumer products. they are making their money thatway. they are making money through e-oscar. it's a for-profit company that charges furnisherswhen discover has to do a dispute, and so the concept of everybody wants the same thing,everybody wants to have the same score and the same report in front of consumers, i thinkis a mistaken assumption when you have this really loud room with everybody screaming. corey, you wanted to make a comment here. i just want to provide a little bit of a clarificationaround the director's letter and respond to both len and stuart's comment about the score.

the letter specifically talks about the lenderproviding a score on which it relies. there's no inference that there is one score thatthe lenders rely on, and we know many companies in the credit card industry and other industriesare developing internal customer scores all the time. the point is a score on which theywould rely would be helpful for that particular relationship between that particular creditorand the consumer, and the hope is that it's educational enough to point the consumer totheir credit report to identify what are the underlying ingredients that caused the scoreto be what it was and enough content, so that when the consumer saw the score, they wouldunderstand relatively in the spectrum of scores that they could have what their standing isand how that particular creditor views them.

the bureau is not making any statement aboutthe relative merits or predictiveness of one score over another, and certainly, the intenthere is to preserve, as stuart was saying, a competitive market in scores. i just wantedto add that. great. a lot of issues have been raised sofar, and i wanted to dig deeper on one of them. we've talked a little bit about someof the innovations, particularly with disclosure of the credit scores. one of the things stevecarlson mentioned was the absence of innovation with respect to credit disputes, and so iwanted to dig a little bit deeper on that. the bureau, as the director mentioned, releaseda snapshot of the consumer complaints that we have received. many of these relate tothe handling of disputes, and so i wanted

to talk a little bit about what can be doneto improve the consumer experience resolving credit disputes and what can close the informationloop between credit furnishers, consumers, and the credit reporting agencies. i'm sure several of you will have views onthis. i thought i might start with stuart and then perhaps len, and maybe we'll comeback to steve, since you raised the issue, and see if you have any follow-up thoughts. so a couple of things. first of all, twicelast year and again�this just refers back to director cordray's comments. twice lastyear, our members undertook voluntary programs to adjust how e-oscar operates. it's absolutelyright. we started with mail. we image that

mail, and then that mail is now sent directlyto the lender, so the lender can see what its customer is saying about some data thatis the subject of the dispute. and then by the end of the year, i believe in december,in discussion with the cfpb, they launched the online version as well. and so, by the way, i think the online abilityto upload consumer information enriches an online dispute, and it may address perhapssome of the concerns that were raised initially about sort of the extensiveness of an onlinedispute. many consumers are going to operate online. i think that's just the facts. sowhat we have to do is make sure that the online dispute mechanism works well, not just simplyto say somehow there must be a different mechanism

in place. but those two innovations are inthe pilot test. they're real. they're alive. it's happening every day, but the real questionis, ultimately, we have to learn about how do creditors respond to that information,how orderly is the information that consumers provide. sometimes it's very thick and dense,and we've heard from some lenders that that density is a complexity that they are nowhaving to learn to work with. so we're midstream in really a pilot test which is live for theentire nation, but that is an important pilot test and one that our members supported, andwe're happy to be where we are. so we see that as really one of the fundamentals inall of this, is this information exchange. also, the fair credit reporting act in 2003did address this question of exactly where

should you go to be able to provide a dispute.so the fcra gives me two choices as a consumer. i can go to the credit bureau, and i can submitmy dispute through them to my lender, or i also have a right to go directly to my lender.and candidly, i've talked with many card issuers who say we want to hear from our customers.the first thing we want to do is keep that customer. it's expensive to go get customers.we would like to resolve that issue quickly, and if we're the data furnisher and it's anissue about our data, we're happy to hear from our customer to resolve that issue andto then report that information back to the bureau, to the credit bureau. and in thiscase, by the way, we also provide an automated system for the furnisher not to wait untilthe next reporting cycle but to immediately

be able to transmit to us and update to theaccount information in the credit bureau, so it is updated on a timely basis and wellbefore, for example, the next 30-day billing cycle. so those are just some of the waysthat we have used technology as well as people as well as law, i think, to address some ofthe issues in dispute resolution. too much to say, literally whole chaptersin a treatise and whole conferences of weeks end. you can imagine how exciting that wouldbe to attend, right? their dispute system�and if you understandthe way that the fair credit reporting act began, until 1997, there was not a responsibilityof the furnishers. in my world, not where there's a courtroom�and i can't speak asdirectly to the judge�the case law is very

well established, and the phrase that's usedis that the grave responsibility of a consumer reporting agency has to consist of somethingother than parroting what the furnisher tells it. there has been�and without exaggeration�therehas been an entire abandonment of any responsibility on the part of the consumer reporting agenciesto do the investigation. all the discussion, with all due respect, director, in your speechand the efforts with e-oscar are all supporting the shift of this responsibility entirelyto the furnishers. now, it's a big improvement. for a long time, the furnishers�when thefurnishers were trained on how you do a dispute, they'd go to a cdia conference. the furnishers�cdiahas a program that they sell, very active,

with some of the major debt buyers, called"automated batch interface," sold through e-oscar company, the for-profit entity thathad a spinoff from cdia because it made too much money. e-oscar sells automated batchinterface. that system is a computer interface that is very widely used in which the creditreporting agency computer�this is how a dispute happens. the credit reporting agencydisputer communicates to the furnisher computer. the furnisher computer has no human beinginvolved, and the automated batch interface sends these dispute forms, called "acdvs,"to the computer, and there's this regurgitation back and forth. if you want an in-person dispute, let's takebank of america. you have your identity stolen

with bank of america. you make a dispute tobank of america, and you do not do online, because if you do online, no human being isinvolved. i just completed the deposition of two of the people that run the disputesystem for experian. no human being is involved if you make an online dispute, which is oneof the big problems with the way the annualcreditreport.com referral to the cra websites. but if you makea dispute and you write a letter to transunion, transunion scans the letter and sends it toan outsource company, intellinet in mumbai, india, where the single job of this personin mumbai, india, is to choose the code, make sure the documents are forwarded, and sendan electronic code, which is usually two digits, and there's about six codes that are mostcommonly used, not like his/hers. "this isn't

my account. here's a copy of all my documents." that has been sent to bank of america or salliemae or any of the other companies that use mumbai, india. they have their own folks thathandle the same, and the single job there, even despite the furnisher regulations thatoccurred, is to match up and make sure that the credit reporting data matches the datathat is in the computer already. there is�and we will see how the changes with the furnisherbulletin and other efforts the cfpb is making have an effect, and respectfully, i haven'thad many discover experiences, discover or american express, but the effect of thoseregulations or efforts not yet incurred, the furnisher side of the dispute has this ideathat the credit reporting investigation is

not the�that's not the time to determinethe accuracy or correctness of information. the debt collectors believe that time occurswhen you make a direct fair debt collection practices act dispute. the mortgage companiesbelieve that time is when you make a qualified written request under respa. that time fora credit card company is when you have a fair credit billing act dispute, all the directdisputes, and consumers should make direct disputes. but there is also this very substantialright and worse. everything we were telling consumers through the ftc, through the cfpb,is tell consumers how to make disputes to the credit reporting agencies. all of thatis sending consumers into this automated system where neither at the credit reporting agencyor at the furnisher level, there is a meaningful

dispute. and that is how you have a seven-attorneylaw firm that does nothing but represent consumers who have credit reporting disputes. my closing argument�and i've tried moreof these to juries. the record was not mine, but an $18 million verdict against equifaxrecently. you shouldn't have to go into a wood-paneled courtroom to hire a gray-suitedlawyer to get your credit report fixed, but if my mom came to me and said, "i need a creditreport fixed," and other than trying to find corey stone's e-mail and help that way, theonly thing i could do is to say, "you have to sue." that is unfortunately, unfortunatelyfor all but plaintiff's lawyers, the current state of affairs, and it's the state of affairsnotwithstanding the government relations that

i see for the thousands of consumer disputesfor�we have through discovery, all of the cfpb disputes that were sent to one of thecredit reporting agencies, not just simply database. the hard copy. we represent nowhundreds of those people, and there is no means currently set up for a substantive disputefor most of the disputes that come in through the credit reporting agencies. i'm seeing stuart look like he wants to saysomething, so . . . that would be a shock, wouldn't it? so one thought that has nothing to do withlen's views, but which i think for the consumer advisory board, it's important, just one ofthe steps that the cfpb can take and state

ags and the federal trade commission is toaddress fraudulent credit repair. it's not something we really talked about here today,but when a credit repair agency says, "i'm going to promise to delete all kinds of accurateinformation"�or even sometimes now�i'm using my air quotes here�unverifiable information,this is really wrong. they are generally prohibitive from taking money up front, some of them doanyway. they are hard to find, because they move from state to state fairly quickly, butthey are taking money from consumers who can ill-afford it, but they are also cloggingthe system with disputes. and one of their strategies is to dispute the balance and then15 days later to dispute a payment history and then 15 days later to dispute the meritsof the account overall, and eventually, a

community bank says, "you know what, i'm justdone with this. i can't continue to report this information," and that's harmful to aconsumer, because, by the way, it's not just the address information which was accuratethat gets deleted. quite often, it's the whole account that gets deleted, which thins upa credit report, which means it's not as scorable, and certainly, consumers aren't getting creditfor the fact that they have been paying a loan on time and effectively over long periodsof time. so i would just urge the cfpb to continue to think about that. that is a system.it clogs our system. it clogs the creditor's system, because we have to pass that on tothe creditor as well. just a reminder about e-oscar. e-oscar wasn'tdeveloped just because business wanted to

be efficient. e-oscar was developed becausein the oversight hearings�and i'm old enough to remember this going back to 1988�theissue on the table was why can't disputes be resolved more quickly, and why can't disputesbe resolved once between multiple credit bureaus in a competitive credit bureau market. sothe e-oscar system was designed with creditors, with nationwide credit bureaus, to createa faster system, and so as opposed to waiting 30 days or 40 days or whatever law would havepermitted, we now on average are able to resolve a dispute in 15. now, len paints a horrible picture of automation,but if the automation question is "i don't like the balance on my credit card billing,and here's a document that i think supports

that," we have a system today that allowsthe consumer to upload the document. we have a system that allows our credit bureau tothen transmit the fact of that dispute to the lender, and the lender has a system togo look at the balance and make a determination as to whether or not they want to update thebalance, which, by the way, often they will so automation isn't always the enemy of people,and speed and precision are definitely not the enemy of people. so the question is toensure the system is both quick, but it's also precise, and this is simply where i woulddisagree with sort of the broad paintbrush statements that all of this speed is justinevitably leading to lots and lots of bad results. we have polled consumers to ask themabout the results of reinvestigations in various

studies, and we received 95 percent at highsatisfaction with a result, not with the experience of, by the way, looking at a credit reportbut just the results, you know, what did i get, did i agree with what i got. now, that's the 5 percent we still want tofocus on. maybe that's the 5 percent we're sometimes talking about here today. maybethat's part of the 5 percent that ends up at the cfpb. interestingly enough, with the complaint data,we've done a couple of deep dives into the complaint data, and some of our members arekeeping track of how often did the complaint from the cfpb ever show up as a dispute priorto the�so we know some consumers are disputing�they're

submitting their dispute through the cfpb,like an e-oscar system, to the creditor. in fact, we know about 25 percent of the time,at least some of our members are tracking data, and about 25 percent of the time, theconsumer submits a complaint about our member at the same time that they submit the disputeto the bureau, or there's no previous dispute submitted to the bureau, or the consumer submitsa complaint about the bureau during the 30-day period that our member is trying to resolvethe dispute with the creditor. so that doesn't mean that system is broken.we want to learn from complaints. there's things to learn from complaints, but whenyou get into the details, details matter. this is a much more complex dialogue; hence,the reason for a sophisticated consumer advisory

board to think through these things, and toinform not just the thinking of cfpb staff but really to inform our thinking as industryas well, so . . . so i think what you've both described is asituation where perhaps there's issues with some of the complaints that are coming in,but there's also complaints about serious disputes that may be getting lost in the mix. steve, i don't know if you want to comment.you had introduced this topic earlier about need for innovation. so we will give you anopportunity to weigh in on sort of how do we get to innovations that solve these problems. so i am not an expert on the dispute resolutionside. i would say that my key point was, i

think, access to the score and the monitoringof the report itself has improved over the last few years, but what you don't see isthat on the dispute resolution side if you are a consumer. stuart, you mentioned quick and precise, right,obviously? but i think there's also easy access to the process itself and transparency aroundthe process and what's actually going on. we've had a lot of discussion as a group abouthow do you test into these things and drive them forward, so it sounds like there is apilot underway right now that may be leading towards something along those lines, but ithink until you actually take it to a consumer being able to see the report, seeing somethingthat's wrong on that report, being able to

very quickly and seamlessly then dispute what'son that report, i think it's broken, and it's disjointed. i wanted to touch a little bit�i mean, thoseissues about the sort of access and transparency are important ones that affect how a consumeractually behaves in this area, and i'm curious�len, maybe you could talk a little bit to this�aboutthe hassle factors or the behavioral aspects for consumers when they are dealing with acredit reporting system. i have strong opinions, if you hadn't pickedthat out by now. i would think combining the two tirades thati had, the two�the biggest difficulty, the consumer who comes to us usually has beenthrough other efforts. they have disputed

a number of times. we don't charge any consumerfor this, but a real challenge�and i do this; my office does nothing but�is actuallygetting a copy of the normal credit report, the credit report that the creditor uses. and so this had been under facta an unsuccessfuleffort on the part of the consumer movement to try to get the federal trade commissionto support when you have a credit denial or an adverse action or come up with some meansfor the consumer to see the actual credit report that's used, because that's gold. the most distressing circumstances, if youhave somebody who is declared deceased or if you have a circumstance where somebody'sidentity is mixed up, which occurs because

the credit reporting agencies will match onnine social security digits, those people aren't deceased, they then ask for their report.the credit reporting agencies say, "i'm sorry. you can't have your report. you don't exist.you're deceased." somebody who comes in and says �i represented�irepresent a lot of individuals who have mixed files, where they both come in to me. so i'mmixed up with joe, and i'm mixed up with betty. and the consumer can't get a copy of theirreport, because when the consumer says, "my social security number is 123-45-6789," thecredit reporting agency may have mixed it up, and its computer will�just imagine.this, unlike the other stuff, i've never seen, but i imagine smoke coming out, because it'smatched it, and so the consumer can't actually

see the report on which they're mixed. teresa davis was a case i had in which theonly way we got it was eventually a community bank, which i strongly support, a communitybank actually showed the report after a woman kept going back and disputing it three times.the report she got that mixed with her mother was perfect. when a consumer asks for theirown report and the machine doesn't smoke and they provide�they have to provide nine socialsecurity digits. if they don't, they can't get their report. whereas, if discover asksfor it, though they likely do provide all nine digits, they don't need them. they canprovide name. that's enough. last name, address would be enough for a bank.

so when a consumer uses all nine, they geta report that matches all nine, but if they had been mixed up with someone with sevenout of nine digits�and it's a big deal, for example, with naturalized citizens. wheni was young, when many of us were young, we got our social security number when our parentsdecided it was time. nowadays, when my two children were born, it happens automatically,but for naturalized citizens, they have to go and apply for the social security number.so if you have jose rodriguez and jose rodriguez jr. come in, real clients�jose, sorry�thattheir social security numbers will be one digit off, because they went in to apply together,or�and it happens again and again and again, and so those individuals do not have accessto their own credit report. they can't see

it. they only see the sterilized nine-digitmatch version, not the one that discover gets that results in my client's credit denial. on topic, one of the biggest things i thinkthat the cfpb should consider is reconsider, reevaluate, look under the hood for the supervisoryrole to look at these matching rules and matching criteria. i've seen them. they're under protectiveorders. if anyone wants them, i can't give them to them, but take a look at them, andtake a look at how restricted the consumer access requirements are versus the creditoraccess for seeing the actual report that the creditor uses. meredith, i just want to reinforce what lenhas said. if any of the members of the panel

have not requested their reports, they should.you've got to go through kind of a spanish inquisition to get your own report, and it'sbeen filtered and sterilized. you've got to provide your name, your last name, your previousname, your current address, your past address, your social. you provide so many filters thatyou get a sterilized report, the mixed file, identity theft-laden report is only providedto the merchant who then denied you. and you don't see that report. you see a differentreport. when you get the notice of an adverse action and you say you have the right to geta free credit report, you don't see the same report. so we would like consumers to seethe same report that the creditor used. and getting back to [audio break], why doesn'tthat report include the score that creditor

used? it's great that discover is providingthe real score. why don't all credit reports include the real score? i could go through the 20-year history ofhow we got to where we are finally seeing some credit scores today, but we don't havetime. and i think we actually ran out of time. so,ed, you are right on the mark there. i want to thank you for the very robust discussion.i think we definitely have hit a lot of key points that we need to further discuss andunderstand how the system works and governs a lot of these issues for us. where is zixta? i am trying to look for her.oh, there she is. okay. so, zixta, back to

you. thanks, jose. at this time, i'd like the guest paneliststo rejoin the audience. it's been a fascinating and complex discussion, but we're not quitedone yet. it's now time to hear from audience participants. an important part of how thebureau keeps informed about what's happening to consumers is to hear directly from consumers,from industry and community advocates, as well as others. and a number of you have signedup to share comments and observations about the discussion that just unfolded. each personthat signed up will have about 2 minutes to share their observations and comments andpoints related to this discussion. what we

hear from you is invaluable. it's importantto the cfpb, so we please encourage you to observe the 2-minute limit. so why don't we get started with our firstaudience participant, and she is becky thiess, americans for financial reform. becky, someonewill bring you a microphone shortly. did we lose becky? i thank you so much for this discussion andfor allowing comments from the audience. i definitely thought this was a fascinatingconversation. i would like to thank the cfpb for taking action through supervision andoversight to make this process more efficient for consumers and work better for the public.i'd like to really highlight some of the points

that ed and len made regarding issues thatconsumers have. i think that access to correct information and the ability for consumersto fix information on their reports that are wrong is huge, and it's really important whenpeople's jobs are on the line, especially. we still have a big jobs crisis, and thisis just another thing that's holding people back, so thanks again. thank you, ms. thiess. next, we have tom feltner,consumer federation of america. thank you, zixta. tom feltner, consumer federationof america. i'd like to thank all the members of the cab and the cfpb for organizing thisevent today. my particular comment is around how creditscores are used, and we've heard about the

use of credit scores for employment checks.the cfa research has also found that credit scores are widely used to help set auto insuranceprices, and so when we look at the incidences of errors�and the ftc found that about 10million americans have very serious errors on their credit reports�we recognize thatthat has very real implications for consumer credit choice, for consumer credit pricingand across a wide range of products as well as issues like auto insurance. so we encourage you to continue to work veryclosely with the credit bureaus to make sure that error correction processes are in placeand that they are working effectively to make sure that consumers are getting the most fairlypriced credit that they qualify for as well

as the best-priced auto insurance. thank you. thank you, mr. feltner. next, we have nessafeddis with the american bankers association. yes. this is just sort of a question on thecredit score on the credit card. this is not a q&a. it's comments and observations,please. oh, okay. i guess the�oh, just comments.oh, gees. don't get to ask a question. i think one of the things the bankers�i'mwith the american bankers association, and i think everybody agrees that there shouldbe accuracy in credit reports. it's not just good for consumers. from the lender's perspective,accuracy helps inform their decision, so they can make better decisions.

i think one of the challenges on providingthe credit score in the statement is that there may be other ideas other than just thebureau's endorsed solution and arguably endorsed vendor because of the nature of the creditscore market where you have one score maker who is dominant, but i think that there maybe other ideas out there that credit companies may wish to choose to help their customersensure that they understand their credit reports and credit scores. thank you, ms. feddis. zixta, i'll just say the tenor of my discussionswith ceos about this was there may be various approaches people will take. in general, whatwe want is to have this information be made

freely and regularly available to consumers.the information may differ from one creditor to another that they choose to provide, thatthere should be educational content with it. we're not trying to dictate a particular solution,and in fact, this is�at this point, it's a voluntary exercise and nothing compulsoryabout it, but it's going to be better for them and for their customers. ruth susswein, consumer action. hi. i'm ruth susswein. so i also want to thankthe bureau for putting so much effort into this issue and also for requiring that documentsbe forwarded to furnishers. we think that's going to be really important. we look forwardto see what happens there.

i'll just focus on the dispute process fora moment and just say that we think there needs to be very clear and shared accountabilityand responsibility by both the creditors as well as the cras, and we also feel that thereshould be a clear definition of reasonable investigation and clear duties spelled outfor reasonable investigations of disputes, because as we've heard already�and i won'treiterate�i will just confirm what len and ed have said. these cause the real problemsthat were mentioned by them earlier today. thank you. dwayne carson, center for americanracial equality. thank you very much for the event today, theinformation that you guys shared, and the conversation was great.

my conversation is actually going to focuson payday loans. i'm actually aware that the cfpb is in the process of regulating paydayloans and short-term consumer products. we are care feel that these products are essentialand vital to the minority community, and minorities really love these products. and if you takeaway the payday loans and the short-term-product lending, you are actually sending a messageto the minority communities basically saying that they are not smart enough to make theirown financial decisions. so we at care are a personal freedom organization. we thinkthat if you give them the opportunity to make the decisions and leave it up to the familiesand the individuals in the minority community, they best can make those decisions when itcomes to payday loans, because we also think

that free market solutions is never a badthing. thank you very much for your time, guys. thank you, mr. carson. ben kahrl, global debtregistry. thank you for hosting this event and for permittingthis opportunity to speak. the cfpb is currently going through the processof an advanced notice of proposed rulemaking on fair debt collection practices act issuesand updating rules in conjunction with that act. a lot of the discussion in that act centersaround debt buying, and often these debts that are in dispute do get charged off andget sold to entities that maybe the consumers had no interaction with. and i'd just urgeall the panelists to consider�and certainly

the cfpb�how the debt buying experienceimpacts the fair credit reporting act issues. and one of the issues that has come up inthat anpr is whether the cfpb should encourage the use of centralized repositories that trackthe ownership information when debts are sold in the secondary market, and the answer tothat question could perhaps solve some of these issues with regard to the fcra in termsof letting consumers know who owns their debt now and how to resolve disputes with thatparticular entity. thank you. fran rosebush, assets and opportunitynetwork. hi. i'm here representing the assets & opportunitynetwork, which is a group of over 1,400 organizations from around the country working on asset-buildingstrategies, and my comments are actually related

to what the gentleman behind me just spokeabout and the debt collection industry and how it relates to the credit reporting disputes. from the network, we actually have three recommendationsthat we have for regulating the debt collection industry. we'd be happy to take them for the record. and we will be submitting a letter tomorrow. and it kind of�it echoes what was talkedabout earlier about tackling the credit disputes from the front end, and so the first recommendationis around creditors to be prohibited from both referring debt to collections and sellingdebt to third-party buyers when they lack

full documentation, and that documentationshould travel with the debt. second, creditors should also be requiredto supply this documentation to consumer reporting agencies when reporting delinquent or defaulteddebt in order to support a more fair dispute system. and third, prevent collectors from circumventingany applicable wage garnishment limits and require federally chartered banks to takeadditional proactive measures to prevent improper seizures of debtor's deposits. so thank you so much for this opportunity,and we're happy to be here and see this being talked about.

thank you. scott estrada, national councilof la raza. hello. thank you very much for putting thisdiscussion together. one of the things that i just wanted to highlight was the focus andthe need for developing an accurate and accessible credit dispute system that was brought upby a lot of the panelists. while the access to the information on thefront end is essential, what consumers can do with that in terms of remedying incorrector fraudulent activity is just as important, and one of the common concerns that we havefrom our national affiliates and their interactions with consumers is the inability for creditdispute resolution, and that multiple requests over multiple months still amount to no actionor no correction of the data. and when you

need that job or need that credit or needthat mortgage, you can't wait years or multiple months for the credit bureau to finally addressthat dispute. so we just want to highlight that, the importance of that, and the needfor that system. thank you. thank you. pam banks, consumers union. thank you. thank you very much for holdingthe meeting today. it was indeed a pleasure to have the opportunity to discuss an issuethat is of extreme importance to us at consumers union. we applaud the cfpb's focus on credit reporting,and in recent months, we have collected over a thousand stories from consumers across thenation documenting problems that they have

had with their credit reports and even understandingthe system. consumer reports will issue a report on that, and we would be happy to shareit with the board. but also, we are delighted that the cfpb isencouraging banks to offer consumers free credit scores, the scores that are actuallyused in a lending decision. hopefully, banks will do it across the board for all productlines, which would be excellent, but i have to say that is part of the problem. more needsto be done. we feel that all consumers, especially the un-bank or under-bank, should also geta free credit score, and ideally, that score could be given when they get their free creditreport. and the score given should be a score that is relevant and used by lenders in themarketplace. thank you.

thank you, ms. banks, and we'd be happy totake the report in support of the record for the public meeting. i want to thank everyone who took the timeto join us from their busy day today. i want to thank our cab member and in particularour guest panelists. it's been a really terrific conversation. that concludes today's public meeting of thecab, and i want everyone to have a great afternoon. [applause.]32



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